Stcik Clips
In my book, if it's a sport route (I guess stick-clipping on a gear route would be tough) stick clipping the first bolt (not second or third) is definitely a legit practice for redpointing or onsighting.
Is it not common practice to stick the first bolt on "Silent Menace?"
If so does that invalidate the sends of that route?
The crux of a "good" sport route shouldn't be the clipping it should be the climbing.
Is it not common practice to stick the first bolt on "Silent Menace?"
If so does that invalidate the sends of that route?
The crux of a "good" sport route shouldn't be the clipping it should be the climbing.
Hey Pete
I have no argument with you about redpointing or working a route. Now that that final jug on Silent M. has fallen off I am not sure that I will be able to onsight it anyway. What about stick clipping things which are more reasonable such as Local Boys or Magic Carpet is it cool to stick them? A fall from either would be scary but if you can't make it to the first bolt what are going to do when you get to the third pitch of Local Boys ?! Plus you know the more people who can't cleanly climb to the first bolt, people who flail up the route the more polished those climbs will become and the less enjoyable they become for everyone follows - forever i.e. Flying Circus. It is after all about the climbing and not the Ticking.
So yes if it is a recent route and it has been designed with the stick clip in mind then it is an acceptable practise. I think if I was in a situation where I felt unsafe and there was a stick clip right there I would probably use it. Mostly my non-injury plan for road trips is to keep my ego in check and climb routes which I am pretty sure I can climb.
I have no argument with you about redpointing or working a route. Now that that final jug on Silent M. has fallen off I am not sure that I will be able to onsight it anyway. What about stick clipping things which are more reasonable such as Local Boys or Magic Carpet is it cool to stick them? A fall from either would be scary but if you can't make it to the first bolt what are going to do when you get to the third pitch of Local Boys ?! Plus you know the more people who can't cleanly climb to the first bolt, people who flail up the route the more polished those climbs will become and the less enjoyable they become for everyone follows - forever i.e. Flying Circus. It is after all about the climbing and not the Ticking.
So yes if it is a recent route and it has been designed with the stick clip in mind then it is an acceptable practise. I think if I was in a situation where I felt unsafe and there was a stick clip right there I would probably use it. Mostly my non-injury plan for road trips is to keep my ego in check and climb routes which I am pretty sure I can climb.
Last one dead's a sissy
Years ago I did a short stint as a window washer and we could screw the top of one pole into the bottom of another and easily make a pole 8' , 10' or 12' long or longer depending on what combination of 4' or 6' lengths used. I assumed you could do this sort of thing with a stick clip.
Admittedly the Magic Carpet example was pretty silly. I would ask the readers forgive the example, but not point of polishing. As to Local Boys not being a sport route I am anxiously awaiting any information about gear placements possible.
Finally the point I would like to debate is: If you climb a route which has been commonly climbed without stick clipping is it still considered an onsight?
My response to the question which began this thread "Is stick clipping ethical in Squamish?" I can't speak for Squamish my personal opinion is if it is done for legitimate safety reasons (ie a fall means a possible trip to the hospital) of course clip. In all other cases it is for you to decide if need to climb that line or another beautiful line one grade lower without the stick.
Admittedly the Magic Carpet example was pretty silly. I would ask the readers forgive the example, but not point of polishing. As to Local Boys not being a sport route I am anxiously awaiting any information about gear placements possible.
Finally the point I would like to debate is: If you climb a route which has been commonly climbed without stick clipping is it still considered an onsight?
My response to the question which began this thread "Is stick clipping ethical in Squamish?" I can't speak for Squamish my personal opinion is if it is done for legitimate safety reasons (ie a fall means a possible trip to the hospital) of course clip. In all other cases it is for you to decide if need to climb that line or another beautiful line one grade lower without the stick.
Last one dead's a sissy
I think there's a difference between a slab route and a sport route.
Is it still an onsight? Sure, in my book anyhow. If you argue that it's not an onsight if you stick clip the first bolt then it's surely not a redpoint either if you stick the first bolt.
I also don't buy the "ego" argument. A good way of improving your ability is to get on routes that may be too hard for you. Stick clips make this a safer practise.
It's not much different than the argument about the validity of soloing a "route" with a tonne of crashpads at the base. Still impressive in my book. Safer for sure. Smarter as well. More news worthy? Probably not.
The death or serious injury ascent is always more news worthy.
Last I checked though most of us don't need to worry about the news worthyness of our crashpaded, stick-clipped, and pre-hung pinkpoints.
Climb, have fun and keep arguing about who's having the most unethical fun.
Stick clips forever!! Now if I could just find mine.
Is it still an onsight? Sure, in my book anyhow. If you argue that it's not an onsight if you stick clip the first bolt then it's surely not a redpoint either if you stick the first bolt.
I also don't buy the "ego" argument. A good way of improving your ability is to get on routes that may be too hard for you. Stick clips make this a safer practise.
It's not much different than the argument about the validity of soloing a "route" with a tonne of crashpads at the base. Still impressive in my book. Safer for sure. Smarter as well. More news worthy? Probably not.
The death or serious injury ascent is always more news worthy.
Last I checked though most of us don't need to worry about the news worthyness of our crashpaded, stick-clipped, and pre-hung pinkpoints.
Climb, have fun and keep arguing about who's having the most unethical fun.
Stick clips forever!! Now if I could just find mine.
I love topics that get people riled up and make them start insulting each other from behind their computers. Especially topics as silly as this one.
I call this topic silly not as an insult to Charlie but to the fact that the question of stick clipping or not stick clipping had to be asked.
There aren't many sport climbs in Squamish that have the crux or defining moves before the first bolt. Those routes that do (Silent Menace, Pulse, Timber Queen, Down System, etc...) have accepted safety practises that have been established by the first accensionists and are usually used by those who climb or attempt to climb them.
Now of course a 5.19 climber would think that these warm-up routes should all be done in street shoes or soloed and the first 5 bolts should be ignored anyway.
The grade of the route should have no bearing on whether or not the first bolt should be stick clipped. If a climber feels that they would rather stick clip the first bolt rather than risk injury then they should stick clip away. We are on a rock climbing forum talking about rock climbing. The climbing should be about the climbing not about comparing the diamond like quality of our cojones or about if someone is more interested about keeping their body functioning normally than the percieved "clipping ethics" of an area.
P.S. The argument about whether or not slab climbing is sport or not is moot because slab climbing isn't rock climbing: its extreme hiking.
I call this topic silly not as an insult to Charlie but to the fact that the question of stick clipping or not stick clipping had to be asked.
There aren't many sport climbs in Squamish that have the crux or defining moves before the first bolt. Those routes that do (Silent Menace, Pulse, Timber Queen, Down System, etc...) have accepted safety practises that have been established by the first accensionists and are usually used by those who climb or attempt to climb them.
Now of course a 5.19 climber would think that these warm-up routes should all be done in street shoes or soloed and the first 5 bolts should be ignored anyway.
The grade of the route should have no bearing on whether or not the first bolt should be stick clipped. If a climber feels that they would rather stick clip the first bolt rather than risk injury then they should stick clip away. We are on a rock climbing forum talking about rock climbing. The climbing should be about the climbing not about comparing the diamond like quality of our cojones or about if someone is more interested about keeping their body functioning normally than the percieved "clipping ethics" of an area.
P.S. The argument about whether or not slab climbing is sport or not is moot because slab climbing isn't rock climbing: its extreme hiking.
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mcgarnickle
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Stick Clips
The picture that Brendan posted looks like one of the climbs in and around Churning in the Wake and Kings of Rap in Smith. There is no death landing to that climb. I believe it is a 5.13 around the corner to the right of the before mentioned climbs and it starts in a small hole. The moves on the climb are pretty hard and bouldery so alot of people STICK CLIP THE ANCHORS so they can top-rope it. If this is the climb in question then the picture is a bad example of a death start.
Cool picture though.
Pete, I'll be in Squamish on Saturday and Monday sans family. Jodie has stopped climbing for the next couple of months and we have Kai's birthday on Sunday.
Cool picture though.
Pete, I'll be in Squamish on Saturday and Monday sans family. Jodie has stopped climbing for the next couple of months and we have Kai's birthday on Sunday.
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ryan_boarder
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