U-Wall Aid Beta?

[WhiskeyKid]

I attempted to solo university wall yesterday but got stumped on pitch 2 (or pitch 3 maybe, depending on what anchors you use). About four placements above the second anchor there's two fixed pins, one right above the other, once I got up onto the top one though I couldn't find a decent placement above it. Well, certainly not a C1 placement anyway. The crack seems to either close up completely or flare too drastically to get any clean gear in, and while I'm certain that I'd have been able to get a knifeblade in I knew that would be bad style. I got a bit higher on a hook placed out on the right face but that seemed to lead nowhere. Does the aid line run out left along that flake? Has anyone been on it lately? Maybe a fixed piece has been pulled? I dunno. I climbed it once before with a partner, about 5 years ago, and while I didn't lead that pitch I certainly don't remember anything desperate about it. Anyone?

Also, on the topic, I considered replacing the top piton because it looked like it was on its last legs and there was some definite creakiness to it as I was trying to highstep off it. Would anyone have a problem with it if I attempted to pull it and drive a replacement? I only ask because I'm not from the area and am not entirely familiar with local ethics, for some reason some areas seem to frown on replacing fixed pieces until they fail. I only ask because I intend to get back on it later this season.

And finally, I'm not totally sure from reading the guide book which anchor is the first. Is it the chains at the top of the first flake or the two bare bolts that are the obvious replacements of the manky hangers above them? This is why I'm not sure if I bailed on the second or third pitch.

And whoever finds the couple of biners I left on those bolts, enjoy!

[Cloudraker]

I don't remember anything desperate about that section. I think replacing the pin would be fine as long as there isn't a C1 or C2 alternative to that move.

And from what I remember there isn't much in the way of hooking on the first couple pitches. Regarding the pitches, the 5.6 traverse at the beginning is often referred to as P1.

[Jason]

I'd have a problem with the replacement of pins on U Wall. It's a freeclimb, and I consider the eventual widening of locks on our freeclimbs as a bad thing, indeed.

Besides, for aid climbers, small BD stoppers usually work well enough in the scars left behind.

[WhiskeyKid]

But, they're "fixed" pins. I can certainly understand the concern with pin scars on free climbs but when the pins aren't meant to be removed, those locks aren't available for free climbing anyhow. Wouldn't you be more concerned about the integrity of the fixed protection that you're potentially falling on? I'm not proposing the installation of more pitons, just the replacement of the ones that are already there, and necessary for a free ascent.

[PAW]

if I can clear the smoke out of my eyes from those days and remember, oh ya here we go.

First pitch is after your done all the traverse to the base and are hanging in the little corner. Climb pitch one through the flare awkward to aid cant imagine to free continue up corner and belay at first anchor. From there you are looking up the shadow or the easier free variation to the left out the flake. Aiding you go up the corner because why not after repeating the same movement 30 or so times you reach an old anchor in the middle of the pitch sounds like you passed this and continued to the crux of the free line of the shadow where all the possible holds are used up with the fixed pins you clip at that point you move left to join the anchor at the top of the flake. the sequence of the moves left is something of a hook move to a bomber cam/or free move and then clip the bolts.

Hope that helps. Off of that anchor you head up a crack just right of the anchor and left of the corner until it ends then your back into the corner for what seems like forever. Enjoy.

[Jason]

Those pins are not critical to the free ascent. It has been successfully led without them. My point remains that the continued use of iron changes the rock.

J

[YetAnotherDave]

My point remains that the continued use of iron changes the rock.

Those pins have been there for years and are rusty as hell. If they don't get removed or replaved soon the heads will probably break off, and they'll be a right bastard to remove then. My vote would be to remove them, and then replace them if there isn't a decent stopper placement left behind. There are broken-off pins and timebomb pins in a bunch of classic routes, many will now require chisels, vicegrips, and lots of sweat to remove now that the heads are broken off...

Dave

[WhiskeyKid]

There are broken-off pins and timebomb pins in a bunch of classic routes, many will now require chisels, vicegrips, and lots of sweat to remove now that the heads are broken off...

Dave

I agree that replacing a pin before it breaks is not only easier, but will do much less damage to the rock.

[Jason]

Driving any pins into rock that has gone clean (and still undoubtably will without fixed gear) seems like a clear step backwards to me.

Did I mention it's a free climb?

Let's have some proper resource management, folks.

[YetAnotherDave]

Driving any pins into rock that has gone clean (and still undoubtably will without fixed gear) seems like a clear step backwards to me.

Did I mention it's a free climb?

Let's have some proper resource management, folks.

W're talking about two rusty blades at the top of the shadow - they really should be pulled before they break and are un-cleanable. I'm reasonably willing to bet that every free ascent has clipped them.

If on removal the scar becomes a nut placement, so much the better. It will almost certainly be a fixed placement still, since U-Wall is aided way more than freed (esp. the Shadow) and those pins are right before a hook traverse.

I would like to do some general manky-pin removal on a bunch of routes, including diedre (timebomb near the top), the buttress (broken pins in the 10c pitch), No Saints Left (broken bong in the 2nd pitch), ...
If WhiskeyKid wants to remove the mank from U-Wall, power to him! Whether those pics should be replaced depends on what's left from the cleaning, IMHO.

[PAW]

as to the problem you came up against on the way to the third belay. Next to the top pin about 6inches to its left is a bathook hole this easily allows you to get to the hook placement on the jug out left and then around onto the shelf and belay stance next door.

theres your beta. As for the rack dont listen to the guide book if aiding the whole thing no need for any big cams just doubles up to #3 camalot. As well yellow aliens are used multiple times over on this climb one pitch you just keep going back and forth for about 10 moves. So bring a couple of them

[Jason]

Now that this old post has resurfaced I see I didn't read Dave's last post..

Dave, it's gone free without the pins - trust me. If you want me to cite my sources please feel free to contact me.

Sure, remove them... but please don't replace them. Believe me, I'm almost as fixed-pro friendly as any guy out there. Admittedly, I couldn't really do anything if they were replaced - but I'd be really pissed!

It would be a sad day in the history of Squamish if more iron was pounded into one of its most important - and beautiful freeclimbs.

Sincerely,


Jason Kruk

[PAW]

I hear what your saying JK.

just leave them as is its easy aid and there's bomber gear just underneath them.

I think all of the webbing left all over that fix junk is more of an eye sore, as well as potentially more dangerous, then those rusty hunks of steel. If anything needs replacing its the slings not the pins.

On a side note when you put new webbing onto an anchor station with quicklinks why not take the 2 seconds to cut off all of the old sh*t? This is in reference to the tat at the top of the 1st shadow pitch.

PAW

[WhiskeyKid]

Yeah, I did leave two quicklinks on that anchor, and some webbing, and you're right, I would've liked to cut all that mank off, as well as the webbing on those fixed pins. But... no knife. I had a multi-tool in my truck and just forgot to throw the damned thing in my bag. I was actually thinking that if I'm up there in the next couple months I might take some lengths of 1/2 chain to leave on the anchors...and a damned knife.

[WhiskeyKid]

And incidentally, the weekend before last, I figured out that hook move to the third anchor, climbed the fourth pitch and bivyed back on the third anchor. I woke up at 1am as the first few drops of rain started so I got up and put the fly on my ledge, and when I woke up at 6am it was hammering rain. By the time I got my gear down and rapped off it was beautiful again! I shoulda just stayed in bed for a couple more hours. Squamish can be a hard place to road trip to sometimes...