Retro on Right Wing?

[MCpl]

wet or not, imo, i dont think bolts are the answer! what about U Wall? and all those other hard free climbs which rarely get attempted due to the wet starts!!

it makes an ascent all the more meaningful. and keeps the crowds away. bolt it and they will come!!

Brendan. Looks to me like you were saying U wall climbs are hard.

Either way, as Rich K pointed out, the issue of hard or easy is subjective and relative to each and every climber. It doesn't matter to me or the next climber what you can or can't climb be wet or dry. I'll decide if I want to climb it or not. The crux of the matter here is safety. More specifically, safety for anyone who is getting on the route.

I can only guess that one of the reasons why Jeremy would sacrifice his own personal time and money to go up and retro-fit a rarely climbed often wet route is so that others can go up and enjoy that route. If this is the case, which is a very non-elitist attitude, than I say go for. This way the route doesn't belong to anyone, Fisrt Ascentionist or climbers who can climb wet streaks, and it doesn't fall into obscurity.

So to sum up my view, I say add the bolts. I have a lot of trust in Jeremy to not go overboard. After which, those who write the guidebooks in the future can add a little snipet to the description for the Right Wing that goes a little something like this:"Originally freed without the use of bolts..... Bolts were added in later years to offer more protection, but try it with only the thin natural protection to exprience how it went before."

This way Hard-Man climbers who climb wet streaks can opt to not clip the bolts as they run out the pitch. Too easy.

[Brendan]

good points Marty

[Peter]

It's interesting debating a topic regarding a route that practically none of the posters has been on. Yes it's good to get consensus regarding gear belays etc, but to dissect specific sections of a route that one hasn't even been on is a bit silly. I'm sure the person(s) cleaning the route will make the right call, if in certain people's opinions it's the wrong call then I'm sure the bolts will magically disappear, but that won't be known until the route is cleaned and ready to be climbed. I myself look forward to the unveiling!

[Optimally-Primed]

Update after a weekend's cleaning and sussing (thanks Hoi-en, Katy, and Kelly for helping out).

BOLTING

My current thought is as follows

1) The mega corner requires 0 bolts and will receive as many from me. There is adequate protection not more than 3m apart at any given time. The challenge will be in bringing enough, because

2) The mega corner is monstrously burly, long, and exposed. From the ledge at its base to the bolted belay (not mine) at its top is about 68m. There is a reasonable (and better) spot for a belay about 60m up, 8m below the chains. Other than that, there is potential for fully hanging stations only. I would like to retain the long and sustained nature of the pitch by removing the hanging belay (old bolts) in its middle. The question that I now have for myself (and anyone who cares to opine):

What to do about the belay at the top? Again, there is a bolted station 8m above where the belay should be (shared with Godforsaken Land). The lower belay can easily be built on gear. Should I chop the bolted belay and do nothing more? Or should I move the chains down 8m and bolt beside a good belay crack? I think I know which way I'm leaning (should be obvious by my tone).

3) The wet corner is still wet. It actually has 3 pins and a bolt right now... No one has freed the pitch without the pins so when I remove them, I will closely inspect whether or not their absence leaves room for natural gear. If not, it will now be far more scary and dangerous than before if there are no bolts to replace them. By my eye-balling, I'm still thinking 3 bolts, which will still require the leader to fidget with micro cams in places in order to protect the pitch well. But I'll TR it before drilling.

4) It is my intent to have all belays be on gear, unless no gear is present. At this time, I think that the one belay below the wet corner is the only one that will receive a bolted station.

NEWS
5) A scary incident to report on Saturday. After spending many hours on the mega corner, bouncing on my dynamic fixed line, I came up over a bulge to see that the rope that I was jumarring on had rubbed itself a core shot. The core looked ok from where I was (5m below) but I wasn't about to test it... Hoi-en came down to tie it off while I hung from pieces frantically shoved into the nearest crack. I have a back-up rope set up now. Yikes.

6) About 35% of the cleaning work is now done. Thanks to all the helpers this weekend.

SOME CONTENTIOUS POINTS
7) Someone mentioned earlier that reducing the iron keeps the crowds down. I would note that an absence of crowds is the exact problem with Right Wing. That's why it became overgrown. As far as I'm concerned, I'd be happy to see line-ups on it this summer. It's going to need traffic to stay clean.

As someone else correctly inferred, my intent is to add something to Squamish climbing, to give back for all that I have benefitted from in terms of others' work (I think of people like Robin Barley and Kris Wild to name a few). The point is for others to get something out of climbing Right Wing... that of course has to be balanced by playing within "the rules" or commonly held notions of what a climb should look like. It would haunt me if someone were to be seriously injured or die as a result of unavoidable danger (eg non-existent protection). But a decent sized but clean fall is just part of the game.

[Brendan]

definitely sounds like it will be a fun safe climb when you're done! Jeremy, let me know if you need help cleaning during the week, i have tonnes of time off!!

[XXXX]

Jeremy, it sounds like you have this under control. Good work.

The only points I see as still up for discussion (cause everything else is settled) are

# of bolts to replace fixed pins

bolted station.

With respect to #1 don't think that because you pull out 3 pins that 3 bolts have to go in near to those pin scars. Pins can only go in certain spots, not necessarily the best for clipping. Horrors of Ivan is an example of a spot where 4 pins were successfully replaced by 2 bolts that protect the climbing just as well. On the other hand if you take the pins out and find that the best clipping spot for the first bolt is now lower down, then it might end up you end up placing 4 bolts. whatever works.

Now with respect to the bolted station it sounds like you want to put it at 60m. That's Ok but if you were climbing 10 years ago would you have wanted to put it at 50m for the same reason, cause everyone had 50m ropes then? Seems like 60 is the new standard but 70s are taking over, maybe 68m is fine cause everyone will have 70s in a few years and be wondering why the anchor is short? I guess what I am trying to say is that you should put the belay at the most natural spot to belay (even if that is at 40m) not at the spot where the current fashion of rope length says is a full pitch.

[Optimally-Primed]

Thanks for the comments.

Your first response makes good sense to me.

To clarify on the second: The *only* reasonable stance between the ledge and the top of the route (an 85m stretch that encompasses the mega corner as well as the overhanging beak flake pitch) is 60m above the ledge, which is also 8m below where the beak flake kicks up. Hence, the natural spot for a belay (if you have ropes that are 60m or longer) is at 60m. Where the chains are now is a hanging belay. Again, the question is what to do about the chains?

[XXXX]

are those chains and bolts where godforsaken land joins in? cause i think i remember you can join in on the beak flake to finish GFL. now if you remove the chains will it mess up a pitch of GFL?

if it won't affect another route then move the station to the natural stance, says I. if it will affect another route then you have to consider that route as well.

[Optimally-Primed]

With cleaning almost complete, I've started a blog to document the process. In the future, I will post a topo, photos, and beta (gear recommendations; how to know when it's dry enough to climb without climbing up there to check).

Check it out: http://squamish-rightwing.blogspot.com/[/i]

[Optimally-Primed]

That link didn't come through properly. Here is is again:

http://squamish-rightwing.blogspot.com/

[YetAnotherDave]

looks good, thanks for all your hard work

Dave

[Optimally-Primed]

Right Wing is now clean. Finished it up yesterday. Find a topo at www.squamish-rightwing.blogspot.com
Keep in mind: The climb is slow to dry; bring the big stuff; enjoy.
Jeremy

[MCpl]

Thanks for all the hard work. I'll have to motivate myself to get up on that thing. But I'm interested to hear what others have to say about it and the work you've done.