The lost dynamic lead belay

[MCpl]

Is dynamic lead belaying a thing of the past? Do they not teach this anymore? I saw two instances in the last week that made me cringe.

First instance. I was at a crag that offered a lot of 10s and as a result there were a lot of climbers who were cautious with leading. Well, one of them took a whipper and the rest of them made a huge issue of it. Basically they were going off on how the leader shouldn't have come down sooo far. In reality, the belayer did a great job. Totally dynamic. Either way, their yapping caused us to leave.

Second instance. I was at a very popular crag on the weekend and practically every route was taken, so I sat back to watch. One climber was working a route in what looked to be way over her level. Perhaps her partners coaxed into it but whatever. Anyways, as she takes a fall, it comes out that that was her first lead fall. There was a bunch of rejoicing. But fall after fall she was slamming into the wall quite hard. Then I realized that her belayer (who looked at least 60lbs heavier) was not jumping for her at all. He basically took and sank to his feet.

And then there was today. The one that caused me to actually say something. There was this trio. The leader leads ends up falling and becuase of the weight difference inadvertently pulls up the belayer. So the watcher rigs up an anchor for the belayer and is all proud of himself becuase he has ingeniously prevented the belayer from getting yanked up again. When we explained to him that this was in fact a bad idea, he, the belayer, and the climber had no clue as to what we were talking about.

Do people not know that except for catching a fall near the ground or if one is belaying under a roof, that it is necessary to jump when catching a lighter or same weight lead climber (Dynamic belay vs. Static belay)? Heavier climers will just pull up the belayer which is what you want.

People, the more dynamic the better.

[mcgarnickle]

this brings up the better question, what the hell are you doing at the gumby crags marty?

Seriously tho, I've long given up trying to "educate" other climbers, unless they are doing something deadly dangerous. There's just no point. Like you observed, they either have no idea what you're saying to them, or, more commonly, they give you attitude because their frail egos have been injured, no matter how nicely you tell them. I just stay away from crowds on walls like Neat and Cool, or others like it. If a gumby falls at a crag you are not at, does it make a sound???

[Climbingjunky]

I just stay away from crowds on walls like Neat and Cool, or others like it. If a gumby falls at a crag you are not at, does it make a sound???

That's a very negative, condescending attitude. Nobody is perfect. I'm glad Marty said something to those climbers about the dynamic belay. If their egos get in their way, well that's their problem, at least we've done our job, we saw the potential danger and risks involved and warned the participating parties, the rest is up to them to heed the advice. If we are a community of climbers, we should be caring for others safety at a certain level, especially when you this kind of bad practice occuring. I understand there are difficult people out there. It's always worth helping others out if it can prevent future injuries. Just my 2 cents.

[bike]

A lot of indoor places won't let you practise falls anymore. The perfect place to teach it.

[rich k]

i agree marty, and it's probably also good to point out that dynamic belaying is even more important when your trad climbing. not only are you avoiding back-breaking catches, but you're also significantly reducing the shock load placed on the gear. i remember one fall in particular that i took on a small cam that sent my belayer 10 feet in the air. i'm almost certain that if she was anchored in, the piece would've popped and i would've decked. also, i see trad climbers, usually climbers who look to have a strong sport climbing background, belaying with a gri-gri. this is bad for the same reasons. you might as well pull out the static rope...

it's always a tough decision deciding when to go up to a climber and suggest that they're doing something that could be done better. if the climbers look new, i'll probably not hesitate to suggest to them that they could improve on their techniques. if they've been around for a while, it's a harder situation, but if it looks like they're about to seriously injure themselves, chances are i'd say something even if i know it means a but-i'm-the-climber-that's-never-wrong argument.

[mcgarnickle]

A lot of indoor places won't let you practise falls anymore. The perfect place to teach it.

Ain't that the sad truth. Me and a partner of mine used to "practice falls" from the tops of the overhanging routes at Cliffhanger, but everyone stared at us like we were crazy kids. People are so uptight these days....

[phoenix]

I just took a sport climbing course on Saturday with one of the local guides. We were taught dynamic belays, and the instructor was kind enough to take some falls to help us get a feel for catching lead falls. While the course taught me the basics, I recognize that it will take experience for me to better develope the skill.

As a rookie climber, I appreciate the kindness and generosity of experienced climbers who offer advice to rookies like me. I hope you guys don't get too discouraged with us junior climbers and continue to offer words of wisdom.

[c-plus]

If their egos get in their way, well that's their problem, at least we've done our job

i agree. i mean, all you can do is try and help people out, but it's up to them to listen. i also think that sometimes people try and brush you off immediately cause their ego's hurt, but afterwards they actually do think about what you said...

still, i can't help but wonder where people are learning to climb these days!!! is there a "climbing for dummies" book out yet?!!?

[Peter]

. also, i see trad climbers, usually climbers who look to have a strong sport climbing background, belaying with a gri-gri. this is bad for the same reasons. you might as well pull out the static rope...
t.

I don't know if I agree with that statement. You should achieve the dynamic result from rope stretch and the jumping belayer (and or a wee bit of slack) that's all. Grigri still makes it safer (if you know how to use it)

[XXXX]

dynamic belay is great for a clean fall off an overhang but not so great when you can hit a ledge, the ground, protruding holds, or when you will get 50 feet of road rash from a slab instead of 20... for really hard runout slab it is even nice to have a hip belay and/or Russian 2-belayer style where one belayer yards in slack as you fall and second climber locks off... you might be 50 feet out and only fall 70 feet instead of 100 with this system.

[Brendan]

[/quote]...Me and a partner of mine used to "practice falls" from the tops of the overhanging routes at Cliffhanger, but everyone stared at us like we were crazy kids. People are so uptight these days....[/quote]

hahaha... the good old days!!

[ras]

[quote="mcgarnickle"][quote="bike"]A lot of indoor places won't let you practise falls anymore. The perfect place to teach it. [/quote]

Ain't that the sad truth. [/quote]

And the cliffhanger in van is so crowded you can't even lead, much less fall

Its weird, if they think the routes are safe to lead, they must believe they are safe to fall on "accidentally", and if they are safe to fall on by accident, why not on purpose? Anybody know what the thinking is behind this no-falling rule?

[phoenix]

That means more accidents, more problems, and higher insurance rates and higher membership rates. if I owned a gym I sure as hell wouldn't want everyone with a lead card taking whippers on my rope. Would you?

Carefull, It sounds like your inner business man is showing through.

but seriously, in defense of new lead climbers:

The typical lead course is 3-hours for indoor climbing and 8-hours (less meet and greet time) for outdoor courses. We are only taught the basics (clipping, threading the anchor, etc). On the outdoor course we don't even get to practice real leads - just mock leads with top-ropes. After the course we are on our own. The lucky few know more experienced climbers, and so they can solicit feedback as they practice these new skills. The rest of us just try to be as sensible as we can in further developing our skills.

While I don't expect experienced climbers to spend their time offering tips to us rookies, it sure is nice to receive the feedback.