Calling out the Hacks.

Everything and anything to do with climbing in Squamish.
NateDoggOG
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Re: Calling out the Hacks.

Post by NateDoggOG » Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:51 pm

As brutal as that sounds, it got me laughing :D

Cinest
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Re: Calling out the Hacks.

Post by Cinest » Fri Aug 19, 2011 2:39 pm

lol the Pinball scenario is funny as hell, however could easily happen. I was passed on Diedre by simul climber, it made me very nervous thinking I could be seriously hurt if they messed up.
As for Al, is that the old guy who solo's around the Smoke Bluffs? If so, I saw him my first day climbing. He went up one crack and down another, very confident good climber...I was amazed.

slopr
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Re: Calling out the Hacks.

Post by slopr » Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:51 am

all climbers solo at some level. For some it is setting an anchor atop burgers & fries, for some it is skipping bolts because you didn't bring enough draws with you, for some it is onsighting a multipitch 5.10 with no rope, my guess is that the guy/girl on the 5.10 has the best odds of survival as they are likely the most mentally prepared. We all have our own levels of comfort. Calculating risk & using only your abilities to protect yourself builds your mental armor in amazing ways. Soloing around strangers is not the coolest thing to do, especially hot rod style (a la Al), but sometimes you can be soloing or about to when someone else rolls up @ the base or you catch a party on a ledge that you could not see from below, every situation has more than one point of view & yes the world is filled with reckless inconsiderate meatheads looking to fill the ego with small victories gained from the "ohhhs & ahhhs" of others. I agree 100% that they are out they are out there.

Case in point:

http://vimeo.com/7858740

IMO The least cool thing of all is to generalize an activity & anyone who participates in it based on one experience or individual as was done by the OP

"In short, when idiots go soloing they endanger us all.
Now I’m not writing this to bash on all people to chose to solo, I’m writing this to encourage other climbers to call out the hacks who would put us all in danger by their actions."

Soloing is at the root of all climbing & mountaneering & without it our passion would not exist, you think the first climbers had ropes & grigris?

Get over it bud, do you bash all asian people because one cut you off in traffic one time & you "almost" crashed?

See ya later haters

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SgF4M3D ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrX0ohmu ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2cXB_t9fck

NateDoggOG
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Re: Calling out the Hacks.

Post by NateDoggOG » Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:24 pm

That second youtube video is amazingly inspiring (for me anyways) but also ridiculously hard to comprehend the level at which those people are soloing.

AaronRN
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Re: Calling out the Hacks.

Post by AaronRN » Sat Aug 20, 2011 10:31 pm

slopr wrote: IMO The least cool thing of all is to generalize an activity & anyone who participates in it based on one experience or individual as was done by the OP

"In short, when idiots go soloing they endanger us all.
Now I’m not writing this to bash on all people to chose to solo, I’m writing this to encourage other climbers to call out the hacks who would put us all in danger by their actions."

Soloing is at the root of all climbing & mountaneering & without it our passion would not exist, you think the first climbers had ropes & grigris?
Years ago I climbed to NW ridge of SirDonald, soloed 4/5 of it. Climbed the NE buttress of Mt. Slesse, soloed a bunch of pitches above the bivi ledge. At the time we looked at our options, made a calculated risk and went for it. I suppose situations like this are at the "root of all climbing & Moutaneering" that you speak of and I agree. On every point I made you and I seem to be in complete agreement, but you make the mistake in suggesting that I am generalizing all people who solo as being idiots. I'm not, and clearly for me to do so would be hypocritical. I suppose I view the kid soloing in the OP the same way a Vancouver Canucks fan views a rioting drunk. Both might like watching hockey, both might be at the same game, both might even be wearing the same hockey jersey, but when the cop car catches on fire the distinction between one and the other is obvious for all to see. So its with that obvious distinction in mind that I'd encourage anyone to call out the climbing hacks who's reckless actions would directly or indirectly put others in danger. Now I know that reckless actions can be done with or without a rope, and I'll attest to seeing the stupidest sh*t where a rope was involved. I've chosen to bring up the issue with soloing because I believe that we place a undeserving level of respect on anyone who would choose to solo. In my experience, the majority of those who do solo are deserving of that respect. But I believe that the ego boosting appeal of gaining such respect is what fosters the actions of fools. By calling out these fools we make everyone safer.
Aaron Kristiansen

draic
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Re: Calling out the Hacks.

Post by draic » Sun Aug 21, 2011 3:51 pm

Haha--i'm not dumb enough to solo but if i did and fell, i'd probably would scream all the way to my car, cry and wail and blubber like a baby; but one thing i wouldn't do is say "I'm sorry" to all you losers. What a BUNCH OF Whiners on this site. Wah wah wah its " inconsiderate to solo with people around" well then if you feel threatened then leave climbing to people who can handle the risks. Jeeze, next you will all start complaining to the Park Service that there are too many loose rocks around and to hold off on allowing people to climb in poor weather because people might Fall and Hurt themselves. Its really risky and inconsiderate. Seriously, if you feel this way then climb in a gym or otherwise stay inside and leave the outdoor "dangerous and inconsiderate stuff" for people who have some spine and training and risk tolerance. I'll bet you also think driving without a seatbelt and riding your bike without a helmet should be illegal. Oh wait, people like you made it illegal. Thanks alot for trying to control your environment and ruining sh*t for the rest of us.

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Re: Calling out the Hacks.

Post by crazymonkey » Sun Aug 21, 2011 6:42 pm

I think all that can be said about this topic has been covered, with many good points being made. Let's not encourage troll-like behaviour, like this:
draic wrote:What a BUNCH OF Whiners on this site. Wah wah wah
Happy climbing, everyone. Solo or roped.

hafilax
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Re: Calling out the Hacks.

Post by hafilax » Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:25 pm

Thank goodness that kid DID choose to pull that stunt with people around. Imagine if he truly was solo!

I don't think I would have taken the same tack as the OP but I certainly would have given him a piece of my mind. Maybe the OP meant something different but it read to me like he was telling the kid to go do this by himself somewhere. That's a good way to get killed. However, if the only reason the kid let himself get in so deep is because of the perceived safety of having people around who might bail him out, then that is a selfish act deserving of the OP's tirade.

As for things pinballing down the Apron; I've witnessed a biner weave its way through 3 parties on Banana Peel narrowly missing a family of 3 at an anchor none of whom were wearing helmets. If you're going to wear a helmet climbing anywhere, moderate routes on the Apron rank high on the list.

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Re: Calling out the Hacks.

Post by jefffski » Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:44 pm

I've always found it interesting to compare the culture of climbing with so-called normal activities, such as tennis and golf. Those two seem so different from climbing, with their strict rules, prescribed behaviours and even dress codes. Climbing, by contrast, is anarchic. We can do what we like, or can we?

Like tennis and golf, rules for climbing exist; they're just not written down and they are often in dispute. Yet, the rules are there. For instance, each climbing area has bolting and route cleaning ethics, norms for how to behave at the crag, boulders, and on multi-pitch routes, and rules for passing, top-roping etc.

This discussion is about the ethics of free soloing and like all other climbing activities, it is rule bound--and we're arguing about those rules. I like the fact that we can enjoy this process and that we are not subject to a prescribed set of rules encoded by a board of directors (yet :)).

I think that as climbing continues to grow and becomes more part of the mainstream, we owe it to ourselves and to those who follow to make sure that we act in ways to keep those who would encode a set of rules out of our hair.

Have fun and be safe.

NateDoggOG
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Re: Calling out the Hacks.

Post by NateDoggOG » Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:20 am

hafilax wrote: As for things pinballing down the Apron; I've witnessed a biner weave its way through 3 parties on Banana Peel narrowly missing a family of 3 at an anchor none of whom were wearing helmets. If you're going to wear a helmet climbing anywhere, moderate routes on the Apron rank high on the list.
I'm not sure if this is the same incident but about two weeks ago now, I was leading a short distance behind the second of the party in front of me. We were on the last pitch, when I heard her say, 'oops' as a biner took off bouncing off the rock.
I took it upon myself to yell KARABINER, and by the time it disappeared, it was ricocheting off probably about 15 feet or so.

On that note, if you drop something, or kick something loose, probably a good idea to warn the people below.
Instead of staring at it.

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Re: Calling out the Hacks.

Post by Chubb Rock » Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:03 pm

Free solo will always be a part of climbing and soloists have every right to be on the rock just like everybody else. It is up to indivduals to make proper choices when climbing , as to when and where. Hacks usually solo for the wrong reasons ...and don t last long.

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