Sate Le Hate
Re: lines
I will have to agree totally with that comment.XXXX wrote:there are so many lines around that will go without chipping, isn't it better to develop those than to spend the time cleaning and bolting a climb that will only go with chipping?
So if I follow you, you're project requires one or maybe even several enhanced holds to make it a fun 12d that everybody will rave about so you think what's the big deal, chip a couple of holds and maybe take some flack for doing it. OR you abandon the project, your many hours, & your money leaving it for future, stronger climbers to aspire to someday maybe but maybe not.
Choosing the first will make you a hero with all your pals and the second just leaves you broke and forgotten. Are you saying that that's what it comes down to?
Choosing the first will make you a hero with all your pals and the second just leaves you broke and forgotten. Are you saying that that's what it comes down to?
Meingh,
I told you someone will always bring up the "Future Stronger Climber" card. These people will never ever be able to just simply answer your question, however hypathetical it is, because in their minds there will always be a "Future 5.17c climber to come". You could have phrased your question with saying 5.25d and they will still say: "Someone will come along and climb that hard."
No one will answer your question, even for the sake of debate. This thread will go off on a tangent because the people contributing to it will not stay grounded on answering the crux to your question because they are trying to envision (or holding out hope for) the "Future Strong Climber" that will come and send your 5.17c. Even if you marginalize it by saying: "All the current climbers, with all their exprience, have openly testified that Meingh's bolted project will not go unless there is a hold in the said blank spot." You would get more supporters if you suggested bolting a gym hold onto the said blank section instead of chipping. Because then when the "Future" arrives, people then will be able to pull off the hold and send it Au Natural.
Don't even bother. I'm willing to bet that half the people on here have not even touched a chipped route because they don't even climb that hard.
I told you someone will always bring up the "Future Stronger Climber" card. These people will never ever be able to just simply answer your question, however hypathetical it is, because in their minds there will always be a "Future 5.17c climber to come". You could have phrased your question with saying 5.25d and they will still say: "Someone will come along and climb that hard."
No one will answer your question, even for the sake of debate. This thread will go off on a tangent because the people contributing to it will not stay grounded on answering the crux to your question because they are trying to envision (or holding out hope for) the "Future Strong Climber" that will come and send your 5.17c. Even if you marginalize it by saying: "All the current climbers, with all their exprience, have openly testified that Meingh's bolted project will not go unless there is a hold in the said blank spot." You would get more supporters if you suggested bolting a gym hold onto the said blank section instead of chipping. Because then when the "Future" arrives, people then will be able to pull off the hold and send it Au Natural.
Don't even bother. I'm willing to bet that half the people on here have not even touched a chipped route because they don't even climb that hard.
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Clive kessler
- Senior Member
- Posts: 238
- Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 8:23 pm
- Location: Vancouver
I agree... all these whiners consistently speak of future hard climbers because they can't climb harder than 5.10.
Oh and by the way where are all of these great natural lines that are just waiting to be bolted? If you find them please post and we will bolt them.
Meigh please start banning some of these retards.
Oh and by the way where are all of these great natural lines that are just waiting to be bolted? If you find them please post and we will bolt them.
Meigh please start banning some of these retards.
I'll dive in for a bit:
Point #1 Why bother bolting a line if it looks blank? You rap it, clean it, you've climbed for a long time, so you should have a good idea whether something should go or not. If you're not sure, then TR it first, you don't have to throw in $$$$$ before you find out if it goes.
Point #2 I can't speak for Le Hate, but I know Just Can't Do It has several chipped holds, it wasn't about one chipped hold making the whole climb go. I for one rapped it before it was created and gave it up because it was blank. Le Hate seemed blank as well.
Point #3 The strong future climber argument doesn't really work, if a section is completely blank it's completely blank.
Point #4 I know it's only a few routes (4 that I know for sure) so why get upset if it's 4 out of 30? I guess the answer to that would be if there's 26 routes already why the need to add 4 chipped one's? Especially when it's not a totally accepted ethic.
This is all of course if you have a problem with chipping, if it doesn't bother you at all then chip away I guess, but don't get all bent out of shape if people have problems with it. I personally don't like it and I have tried a chipped route. I think it doesn't look good on an area and I think Chek already has a lame reputation amongst the out-of-towners. That's my bit, I don't lose any sleep over it, I think it makes a great "climbers" debate.
Point #1 Why bother bolting a line if it looks blank? You rap it, clean it, you've climbed for a long time, so you should have a good idea whether something should go or not. If you're not sure, then TR it first, you don't have to throw in $$$$$ before you find out if it goes.
Point #2 I can't speak for Le Hate, but I know Just Can't Do It has several chipped holds, it wasn't about one chipped hold making the whole climb go. I for one rapped it before it was created and gave it up because it was blank. Le Hate seemed blank as well.
Point #3 The strong future climber argument doesn't really work, if a section is completely blank it's completely blank.
Point #4 I know it's only a few routes (4 that I know for sure) so why get upset if it's 4 out of 30? I guess the answer to that would be if there's 26 routes already why the need to add 4 chipped one's? Especially when it's not a totally accepted ethic.
This is all of course if you have a problem with chipping, if it doesn't bother you at all then chip away I guess, but don't get all bent out of shape if people have problems with it. I personally don't like it and I have tried a chipped route. I think it doesn't look good on an area and I think Chek already has a lame reputation amongst the out-of-towners. That's my bit, I don't lose any sleep over it, I think it makes a great "climbers" debate.
I hate everyone
Peter raises some good points. The one reason chipping arguments are funny is because we all define chipping differently. I have chipped, many people haven't. On the other hand I promise you that every single route in chek (other than slabs possibly) was cleaned using a hammer and pry bar etc....
NEWSFLASH!!! these things alter the rock more than a chisel ever would. How do we deem it acceptable to bash the sh*t out of a big chunk of granite with a 5 pound sledge but deem it annaceptable to alter one specific hold? Do we stop all work on a route when we are pretty sure everything might not fall on some ungrateful fu*#s head as they walk under a route or do we give a few more wacks of the hammer to make sure it is safe? (Gary Excluded) Doesn't this cross the line as unacceptable? Or because it serves the helmet wearing masses is it O.K?
As for future climbers, if anyone honestly thinks that we will somehow evolve to the point where 5.15 is the standard warm up and 5.18 is cutting edge they are mental. However if in make believe land this does happen you are kidding yourself to think that these super human beings will waste a second of their time climbing at the forgotten wall or the crest? These walls are only popular now because people are too fat to walk anywhere else.
As of right now every single route that i put up will have at least one chipped hold regardless of whether it 'needs' it or not just to keep the areas where the routes are located free of out of towners who cry and 'locals'who b%$ch. get bent.
NEWSFLASH!!! these things alter the rock more than a chisel ever would. How do we deem it acceptable to bash the sh*t out of a big chunk of granite with a 5 pound sledge but deem it annaceptable to alter one specific hold? Do we stop all work on a route when we are pretty sure everything might not fall on some ungrateful fu*#s head as they walk under a route or do we give a few more wacks of the hammer to make sure it is safe? (Gary Excluded) Doesn't this cross the line as unacceptable? Or because it serves the helmet wearing masses is it O.K?
As for future climbers, if anyone honestly thinks that we will somehow evolve to the point where 5.15 is the standard warm up and 5.18 is cutting edge they are mental. However if in make believe land this does happen you are kidding yourself to think that these super human beings will waste a second of their time climbing at the forgotten wall or the crest? These walls are only popular now because people are too fat to walk anywhere else.
As of right now every single route that i put up will have at least one chipped hold regardless of whether it 'needs' it or not just to keep the areas where the routes are located free of out of towners who cry and 'locals'who b%$ch. get bent.
First of all I believe Mr. Bad and Strong has used the "F" word and as such has violated the rules and should therefore be banned from this forum. Perhaps he was stung the other day by something with the rabies virus and has since "lost it". 
My argument about chipping is not an "environmental" one, it may be for some, but not from me. The pro chipping argument always seems to be about "that one hold" to make it go. In Chek, I don't think that is the case for any of the chipped routes. I don't know why I don't like it, I just don't. Yeah stuff gets pried off b/c it's loose etc, but that's b/c it's loose! I'm talking about taking the drill to the rock to carve out a hold, where does it end. "Hey if you drill a nice pocket in there it will be a lot more fun than the way it climbs now." I was never a fan of gym climbing and maybe that's what it feels like to me: planned out holds put up by the route-setter. And no, there is no situation where I would chip a hold. If a face looked blank I would TR first. Just my opinion. Btw- I didn't start this thread.
My argument about chipping is not an "environmental" one, it may be for some, but not from me. The pro chipping argument always seems to be about "that one hold" to make it go. In Chek, I don't think that is the case for any of the chipped routes. I don't know why I don't like it, I just don't. Yeah stuff gets pried off b/c it's loose etc, but that's b/c it's loose! I'm talking about taking the drill to the rock to carve out a hold, where does it end. "Hey if you drill a nice pocket in there it will be a lot more fun than the way it climbs now." I was never a fan of gym climbing and maybe that's what it feels like to me: planned out holds put up by the route-setter. And no, there is no situation where I would chip a hold. If a face looked blank I would TR first. Just my opinion. Btw- I didn't start this thread.
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