Wire Tap

[g-ram]

I found evenstevens replies quite funny "I know when I climb, I strive to bring myself up to the level of the rock" and goes to imply that the route developers had to bring the route down the their level. I'm sure that the those responsible for the first ascent can crush rock with the best of them and evenstevens was just looking for a cheap shot. Reading evenstevens blog you can see that he tried a FFA of a hard route on Gimli. Not wanting to deal with the crux as it was, the team added bolts and claimed the FFA, BRINGING THE ROCK DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL AND TAKING AWAY A CHALLENGE FOR A FUTURE GENERATION. If you are going to talk the talk, walk the walk!

[mcaswell]

I climbed wiretap the other day and all the other routes at the base crag on the topo (not the projects). I think that this is a great crag with some excellent climbing that should see a lot of traffic due to the fun, safe climbing. "Thriller on the Pillar" and the "sting like a Bee" cracks are SUPER fun! Thanks to the developers for opening up a new crag!

As for the bolting discussion I guess I should put my two cents in. I would have to agree that the bolts on P3 of Wiretap do seem unnecessary. However the presence of the bolts certainly makes the route more accessible to inexperienced climbers and will probably lead to it getting more ascents. The way it sits now it is a perfect route for someone learning the ropes beacause protecting the route well is a no-brainer. The Bolts are in - they may as well stay. It's a good climb.

Thanks again to the developers for creating another great crag!

[Brendan]

I found evenstevens replies quite funny "I know when I climb, I strive to bring myself up to the level of the rock" and goes to imply that the route developers had to bring the route down the their level. I'm sure that the those responsible for the first ascent can crush rock with the best of them and evenstevens was just looking for a cheap shot. Reading evenstevens blog you can see that he tried a FFA of a hard route on Gimli. Not wanting to deal with the crux as it was, the team added bolts and claimed the FFA, BRINGING THE ROCK DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL AND TAKING AWAY A CHALLENGE FOR A FUTURE GENERATION. If you are going to talk the talk, walk the walk!

Touché

[Optimally-Primed]

Update to Wiretap Fixed Protection

Damien and I got together and chatted about the protection on pitch 3 over a fine coffee at the Zeph. We gave careful consideration to the different perspectives that were voiced on the forum and to us directly.

We then climbed up pitch 3 with the goal of doing it entirely on gear, armed with a double set of cams to 3". In the end, we thought that the third bolt was a keeper. We then bounce tested each piece and found that each cam did indeed hold.

We decided to remove 3 bolts (the first, second, and fourth bolts on pitch 3). In our view, the pitch is now a more interesting and engaging lead, but still has excellent and amble protection. To protect it liberally, however, a double set of cams to 3" is suggested.

We also decided to add 1 bolt to near the end of Eavesdrop.

We will update the topo and post it shortly.

Thanks to all those who offered thoughtful feedback on our route.

-Jeremy and Damien

[psi4ce]

OK, I've watched this thread for a while now and I guess I wish I had thrown in my 2 cents worth sooner.

That P3 crack is flaring and pretty sketchy. I seconded it after a friend who leads 10+ trad without too much trouble, and he said he was glad the bolts were there. I lead climb some trad too, but I struggle a bit leading 10- trad pitches. Pitch 3 would have been a tough lead for me even with the bolts.

They are there now, and you said it yourself--you want traffic on this route. Wiretap is the way it is because you already made those decisions. You can't put any of the trees back, and bolt scars look ugly.

If you are going to chop the P3 bolts, you should probably chop a bunch of the P4 and P5 bolts, too, don't you think? I lead those pitches, and there were plenty o' bolts. Shoot, if you can climb the P3 crack on gear and have no problem, you and probably float up P4 and P5

[Optimally-Primed]

The topo has now been updated. Here's the link again.

psi3ce, in our view, the protection on the climb is generous throughout, both on the pitch 3 crack and on the bolt-protected pitch 4 face and pitch 5 slab. It's funny how bolts can blind us to the excellent gear nearby. The flaring crack doesn't protect well in every spot. But it does have excellent protection at least every body length. With some practice, I think you'll find the gear to be all there and the stances to be usually no-hands rests. The pitch is a more interesting and rewarding climb as it now stands.

Thanks for your feedback.
OP

[harihari]

Jer-- Wiretap rocks. You made a super crag that has something for the newbie 10ish leader, the 5.8 leader, and something for the 11ish more experienced person. It's both thrill and chill.

I wanna throw in two new cents.

People who do not develop routes should not complain about others' routes. It takes 2-4 man-days and $50-70 to develop ONE PITCH of climbing in Squamish. That means, you and your partner will spend 8-10 hours/day hanging off your gri-gri and your aiders, digging with nut tools, saws, crowbars and whatnot. This is time NOT CLIMBING and it is hard, dirty and not-always-fun work. Perhaps evenstevens could look at the cleaning projects post, and do one of those, and contribute, instead of whining.

It is also important for the whiners to note, you NEVER REALLY PERFECTLY KNOW where bolts should go, or how many you really want. You can top-rope the sh*it out of something, or lead it on aid, and you still are never sure until you are on the sharp end. Six inches off, and the bolt can be in the wrong place. Consideer...

-- Maybe you were a weak sack of sh*t when you led and drilled the pitch; now that your fitness level has risen, you may regret how many bolts you added. Or vice versa.

-- Maybe you aided the route on offset Aliens, and those who followed don't own any, or vice versa.

--Maybe the entire pitch is 5.8, with one harder 5.10a move...perhaps, given who will be leading it, a bolt won't be a bad idea?

-- Maybe you're doing your route in Squamish. If it's a mostly 5.8 pitch, with a hard 10 move, people won't climb it...and it will grow over. That might be a reason to add a bolt.

Believe me, I've done it, 18 pitches worth, making a new route is HARD EXPENSIVE WORK. So until you've found a decent line, climbed it on aid, scrubbed it, trundled the rocks off, sawed down trees, given up days of climbing time, spent $$, ruined another pair of approach shoes while standing in aiders, spent $800 on a drill and then sent the route...keep your feedback polite and constructive.

Jer and Damien did the community a GREAT service by doing this crag. Be thankful-- one bolt more than what our inflated egos want is not gonna ruin your climbing experience. If you wanna climb 10b or whatever that's runout, you got billions of options in Squamish.


chris

[harihari]

Thanks to all the people volunteering their time and money (and sweat & blood) to put up good new climbs. I have climbed this route and a few other new routes so far this year and have enjoyed every new pitch. If you don't like the way a crag has been developed then develop your own route (or crag!) and bolt the F*ck out of it or run the F*ck out of it. Time will tell if your effort was worth it.

And... we live in a temperate rainforest. Cutting trees and brush is mandatory if a climb is to exist for more than a few years. Good job developing your crag - I would've cut down or pruned a few more trees!

hear, hear! well said, McFlyThe problem in Squamish is vegetation! There's a couple of hundred routes out there that need cleaning. Cutting a few trees down, believe me, is not gonna ruin the environment, or your climbing experience.

if you don't like wiretap...too bolted?...go climb Freeway, or Sunblessed, or a million other routes, or put up your own cxrag. There's assloads of rock around.

[pinner]

Surely this topic is by now beaten to death not only on this post, but in many others, but I thought I might add that the devising and implementing of new, better gear and rubber soles can also be viewed as "bringing the rock down to the climber's level"

If you truly want to meet the rock on it's own terms, leave your harness, rope, and shoes at the base.

Sounds foolish when applied in broad brushstrokes, doesn't it? Everything has it's place, and a place for everything (and every ethic)...

[pyr]

During my stay in squamish I led wiretap and sunblessed. Both very different approaches to equipment. I loved both of them and can't really see why there is shouldn't be any place for moderate bolt/trad routes in squamish, You probably don't wan't to end up in sunblessed as your first multipitch trad outing...

[pinsandscars]

I climbed the Wiretap last weekend and it was good! We linked pitches 1-2 3-4 like most people here seem to do. We skipped the last pitch cuz it was getting late.
the 1-2 3-4 combo made for what we figured at two 50+ meter pitches of pretty much all clean crack. A real jem.

For the changed crack (bolts removed) it was challenging but my partner sewed that up no problem making it bomber.

Recommendable for sure. I will post pics later(when I firgure out how).

We will go back and try and top rope the other routes after climbing Wtap.



Good effort all.

[PJH]

I climbed this 2 weeks ago. Overall, I thought it was very enjoyable. It was quite busy, there were 2 slow parties ahead of us on Wire Tap. I ended up doing the first pitch of Hearsay to avoind some topropers on Wiretap, then on to P2-P5 of Wire Tap. Thanks for the work. The bolts had been removed on P3, and that made it a bit of a challenge, which I liked since I'm a mid 10s trad leader. Definitely protectable, but a bit fiddly. I have to admit I was glad to see the bolts on the last section of Hearsay, even though maybe it could possbibly be protectable without? I'd have to look again. Overall I'd say the route is 3 stars.

One suggestion/question I have (not a complaint) is about the large root in the crack on P2. I'm not sure how feasible it would be to remove it, but I think the quality of that pitch would go way up if you weren't climbing the root. Maybe there is a nice flake underneath? Again, I have no experience taking out something like that, so I don't know if it can be done, but I think it would be better if it was gone.

[Optimally-Primed]

Hi PJH. Thanks for the kind comments.

In response to your question/suggestion. We worked hard at that root system to no avail. It's buried in the crack like an anchor. We did cut down the tree so the entire lot will rot with time. In a few years, it might be rotten enough to pull out. We'd rather it that way too. In due time.

[damien]

-I thought the first pitch of Wiretap was a soft 10a

I recently re-climbed wiretap to the top of pitch four. I tend to agree with T-bone. The p1 was not nearly as challenging as I recalled. BETA: I originally climbed the crack only, but this time i stemmed off of the pillar, and was able to grab with my left hand the back of a square block (bomber hold), place pro, and move upwards from there.

I know that 5.9 is a hard to assess grade in Squamish given the history 5.9s. I would say that p1 of Wiretap is no harder than 5.9, particularly thinking of other 5.9s like Snake, Picketline, P1 of Laidback, Clandestine Affair, and Pennylane. If anything it is more that it is a unique-to-squamish kind of climbing? Note, I don't have the Select guide and don't know the gradings of these pitches in that book; they are on occasion different.

I have also been considering the grading of Wiretap P3 (the lower crux). I have been trying to think similar moves on existing climbs and what their grades are. Asleep at the Wheel? P3 St. Vitas Dance? I think the lower moves max at 5.9.

As for the upper moves of P3 wiretap I am not convinced that it is 5.10. Comparing to Orphan, Clandestine Affair, and the lower bit of Pennylane I again think this part of the climb is only 5.9.

The topo still reads 10a.

Thoughts?

[Dru]

Comparing to Orphan, Clandestine Affair, and the lower bit of Pennylane I again think this part of the climb is only 5.9.

The topo still reads 10a.

Thoughts?

[old man voice] When I started climbing Orphan was called Minutia and it was "benchmark 5.8"[/old man voice]