ethics of big groups

[jefffski]

I ran into a party of two on the weekend who arrived at the base climbs of st vitus/calculus crack only to find a gaggle of people there and were forced to find another climb to do. I wonder if this gaggle had thought about the implications of their climbing choice.

it seems that a bunch of friends, (at least two parties of three) all decided to climb st vitus together.

The idea sounds good, except when considering how slowly groups of three move on multi-pitch climbs, even if they are all competent climbers. The second party can't begin until the previous party has started up the next pitch--imagine if the leader of the second party arrived at the belay stance to find it alreasdy occupied by three other people!

Any other party arriving at the base of the climb could be looking at a very long wait--hours, literally.

Now, these friends were not part of a commercially guided group, so it is within their right to climb where they please. But i wonder if they considered that their decision to climb the route as 2 parties of three effectively shut down a very popular route for a good part of the day.

btw, i was not one of the affected parties.

[hafilax]

Groups of 3 aren't much slower than a party of 2 if the seconds climb at the same time. It might add 5 minutes per pitch. 3 groups of 2 would be much worse IMO.

I don't think it's a big deal. 2 parties ahead is of you on a weekend on the Apron is par for the course grouped or not.

What time of day was this? I might go a little later in the day in order to not get in front of people with long objectives like the UE or the Buttress. I usually head to the Apron with alternate routes in mind because you never know who will be in front of you.

[smallman]

Hey Jeffski: IF You and your friends expect to climb on the Apron arriving after 6 AM on a sunny hot weekend in June and not find other parties on the route of your choosing, I have a nice bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. I went by the apron at 6 AM Saturday to pick up a friend at the airport and there were 4 parties already on Deidre. Your friends should maybe book a day off work during the week, come with a secondary climbing objective, or wake up and be ready to climb earlier if they want to avoid the crowds. BTW I climbed at the Papoose Saturday - it was abandoned.

[Cloudraker]

Alpine start for Diedre? Starbucks by headlamp? wtf is this world coming to?

[Aaron]

Alpine start for Diedre? Starbucks by headlamp? wtf is this world coming to?

Coming to?? What are you talking about? The only thing that new is the size the headlamps. God, remember those battery packs that were the size of a pack of smokes and the lamps that could double as a coffee cup.

[eresc]

As mentioned before, if you want to avoid the crowd, especially big groups, just use an alarm clock. Don't expect to have an easy fast way on easy routes on the apron on a weekend if you don't arrive there super early.
And, there's nothing wrong with trios. It is just as if you had encountered two groups of two. If you found two trios, tough luck, climb something else!

[pinner]

I would think it could be a fun day out to have a larger group of close friends out together, and it is something very unlikely to happen often, so what the hell, give it a go! As stated, this is a very popular route, so parties are to be expected to be encountered. If you're looking for solitude, there are loooads of better spots than the Apron

[hafilax]

Alarm clock? A run up the Apron takes what, a couple of hours at most? Go in the evening.

[Dru]

I ran into a party of two on the weekend who arrived at the base climbs of st vitus/calculus crack only to find a gaggle of people there and were forced to find another climb to do.

OMG they might have had to climb South Arete or Vector instead of St Vitus or Calculus!

[glomeruli]

i was one of the six and don't see what the big deal is, i've arrived at the base of angel's crest before as a party of two and found three parties of two in front of me....same difference.

we were at the base of the climbs at about 0830 so wake up earlier next time!!!

besides were were'nt all going up st vitus. it took approx 10 minutes to get all of our group up to baseline where we split up onto st vitus and vector and the 2nd and 3rd climbers of both parties climbed at the same time. because vector is 1 less pitch we met up at memorial without sharing a belay.

besides, we all had a good day climbing which is most important.

if you don't want to wait for a climb... don't climb in squamish on the weekend!!!!

[little_miss_negative]

hey jeffski - here's a thought. purchase an alarm clock and wake up early. you can buy them at the dollar store. i can spot you if you're hard up for cash.

like other people have said, it's a sunny weekend and you can expect to see lots of people on these routes.

stop your whining and go climb something else if it's busy.

[jefffski]

hey jeffski - here's a thought. purchase an alarm clock and wake up early. you can buy them at the dollar store. i can spot you if you're hard up for cash.

like other people have said, it's a sunny weekend and you can expect to see lots of people on these routes.

stop your whining and go climb something else if it's busy.

i was not one of those caught behind the big groups. my comments were clearly marked as observations made by another party.

if you have trouble reading, you can get lessons at the local highschools or from a tutor. i can spot you if you're hard up for cash.

[Brendan]

I went by the apron at 6 AM Saturday...and there were 4 parties already on Deidre.

Am I the only one to roll my eyes at this sh*t?

[little_miss_negative]

i was not one of those caught behind the big groups. my comments were clearly marked as observations made by another party.

if you have trouble reading, you can get lessons at the local highschools or from a tutor. i can spot you if you're hard up for cash.[/quote]

well 1) don't base things on hearsay

and 2) perhaps you need a lesson at the local highschool because it's NOT ethics, it's ETIQUETTE

look up the definition if you don't know.

climb on fool.

[pinner]

3 metres penalty slack to you both!

look what one day of rain can do after all that sunshine has been frying our brains