Renaming a route after you clean it.

[Charlie]

Kudos to anyone willing to put that much effort into cleaning a route. With my schedule I am just happy to get out and climb.

[jred]

Billions upon billions of dollars have been spent developing Squamish rock climbing and nobody cares. It is about time people learned about the sacrifices made to pocket books, relationships and knuckle skin. The Smoke Bluffs alone are worth $890 million!
So sorry man, but not even close to justifying the 10 g's plus spent. To buy yourself a whole bunch of expensive tools and to clean a route with them does not mean that is the routes worth. If I were to buy a $2000 hammer drill to bolt a set of anchors does that make the route worth $2000?
Weak is what this is, this donated money could have been put to much better use, like starting a small fire.

[mcfly]

$10,000 ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Maybe I should've tried to get funding for the little crag I'm developing.
Lets see... one wire brush -$3.99, one marine deck brush -$14.99, one pair of hand pruners -$11.00, one small swede saw -$19.50, 10m webbing -$13.00, one old ice axe -free (found in manning park), one nutter -free (found at base of The Grand), ropes/harness/biners/slings/ascenders/nuts/ cams/blood/sweat/food/drink/etc. -donated by memyselfandI.
Math was never my strongest subject but I think this adds up to just under $10,000.

Weak is right... I can't believe 10K in donations is being spent on developing one slimy climb in falcon nesting habitat.
This money could've been put to better use.

p.s. Thanks for all the dirt and mank on Rutabaga and Millenium Falcon last summer.

[EnigmaM]

i don't think you can assign a value on a route, no matter what it may be or where it is located.

Furthermore, this project was largely financed by the person cleaning the route and not a beneficiary.

Yes I agree that Rutabaga/Arrowroot/ Millenium Falcon are dirty and this should be dealt with promptly. As I recall someone broke both of their ankles last year and this may have been the result of dirt / debris on the climb. This, if anything, is the only issue that warrants a timely response.

[jred]

i don't think you can assign a value on a route, no matter what it may be or where it is located.

Furthermore, this project was largely financed by the person cleaning the route and not a beneficiary.

Yes I agree that Rutabaga/Arrowroot/ Millenium Falcon are dirty and this should be dealt with promptly. As I recall someone broke both of their ankles last year and this may have been the result of dirt / debris on the climb. This, if anything, is the only issue that warrants a timely response.

Varsity Outdoors Club--$2000
Jeff Mottershead (VOC)--$2000
Mountain Equipment Co-Op--$2000
Alpine Club of Canada, Vancouver Chapter--$500
Scott Nelson and Sandra Nicol (VOC)--$300
Christian Veenstra (VOC)--$100
Piotr Forysinski (VOC)--$100
Peter and Silke Gumplinger (BCMC)--$100
Matthew Carroll (VOC)--$100
Neil Beattie--$100
Bob Woodhouse (BCMC)--$80
Margaret Hanson (BCMC)--$60
Brian Wood (BCMC)--$60
Steve Mullen (VOC)--$50
Rob Brusse (ACC)--$35
Joanna Kolakowska (VOC)--$20
Bruce Cassels (BCMC)--$20
Urszula Paleczek (VOC)-$20
Other BCMC members--$300
Other VOC members--$24
Squamish Mountain Festival participants--$70
Raphael Tsen and Cathy Choiniki--$10
Climb-On customers--$40

[Nick]

A lot of people in this thread seem to be really concerned with how much money went into this project.
Here is all anyone should really care about:
1) There's a brand-spanking new route on the Chief, free of dirt and debris.
2) It's not hard, so regular folks should be able to get up it. To the top of the Chief.
3) Someone put a tremendous amount of effort and commitment (financial and otherwise) into creating this FOR THE BROADER CLIMBING COMMUNITY.
Got that? New route. Easy. The Chief. MADE FOR YOU.

This leaves a few courses of action:
1) Climb the route. You might have fun. I'm pretty sure that's what Jeff had in mind.
2) Don't climb the route. After all, who got into this sport to climb anything in the first place? We just use it as training to strengthen our typing fingers for online spray sessions like this one.

[itsonlyadream]

A lot of people in this thread seem to be really concerned with how much money went into this project.
Here is all anyone should really care about:
1) There's a brand-spanking new route on the Chief, free of dirt and debris.
2) It's not hard, so regular folks should be able to get up it. To the top of the Chief.
3) Someone put a tremendous amount of effort and commitment (financial and otherwise) into creating this FOR THE BROADER CLIMBING COMMUNITY.
Got that? New route. Easy. The Chief. MADE FOR YOU.

This leaves a few courses of action:
1) Climb the route. You might have fun. I'm pretty sure that's what Jeff had in mind.
2) Don't climb the route. After all, who got into this sport to climb anything in the first place? We just use it as training to strengthen our typing fingers for online spray sessions like this one.

One person in this thread seems to be really concerned with how much comment went into this project.

Here is what anyone could care about:

a) Major landscaping was done on this route.

b) Routes underneath this route were affected.

c) There already was a moderate route there.

d) What if other projects on this scale are started?

Courses of action:

a) Read this forum. You might learn what climbers other than Jeff have in mind.

b) Don't read this forum.

[t2climb]

What a total waste of money. I will be contacting MEC to let them know my displeasure at using coop members' money on this environmentally destructive climb. To be removing trees and disturbing so much area with all the excavation that went on is ridiculous. Not to mention it is in the middle of a Peregrine nesting area. All that money could be spent in a much better way...like providing climbing/hiking gear to poor inner city kids so they could get out and enjoy nature-like the CO-OP should be doing. I hope the route grows over quickly and is soon a forgotten pile of crap.

[bradley3297]

so many harsh opinions. how bout you go climb and blow off some steam LOL. up for europa lol.

[bradley3297]

i could also care less about trees on the chief burn them all down. nature would see to it anyway LOL. look up chief history before people were here.

[J Mace]

Jeez I read there was two routes going up one by Jeff and one by someone else, in fact didnt Jeff say he left most of the trees and ended up pulling some stumps which were left by the new router?


Go fight the pay parking at the chief if you need to blow off some steam.

[matthewc]

Nobody was paid to go cleaning, nor was gas, the van Jeff bought to work on the project, or anybody's personal gear (or snacks) covered. The air compressor was $400 second hand, used to blow dirt out of cracks and off the climb in huge quantities (saving hundreds of hours of scrubbing), and is being donated to the access society.

What cost lots of money was the heavy lifting hardware, four rap racks which all had the sets of bars replaced numerous times due to abrasion wear, and rope, of which the project went through far more than was expected due to damage in the process of cleaning. There is also a series of 7 rap stations from the top of pitch 4 to the ground (away from the route), so that the first 4 pitches can still be climbed all season, during the falcon closures.

As for the funding, it's worth noting first that Jeff is entitled to spend his own money as he sees fit - which is what he did, and where the vast majority of the money came from. Some people spend $100,000 on a car, which is of no benefit to anybody. Others, for whatever reason, spend money on something which will be of a lot of benefit to beginner climbers. The rest of the donations were given by people or organisations specifically to the Europa project, because they supported the idea. The money couldn't have been better spent elsewhere, because people donated it specifically because they supported the idea of developing this climb and wanted to see it done.

Hamish Mutch, one of the first ascensionists, who was a VOC member in the '60s, has now given his blessing to the renaming of the modern line. My understanding is that the new Climbers Guide to Squamish will still credit the first ascent to Hamish and Dick Culbert for the original "Crap crags" line, but also include a mention of how the modern line came to be developed. Personally, I think that's exactly how it should be.

Personally I think Europa is a fantastic project. I have yet to climb it bottom-to-top but I've been on the route dozens of times cleaning, and climbed parts of it. Some of the climbing that was hiding beneath the vegetation and debris is great for the grade, in a wonderful location. Don't take my word for it though, please, climb it and decide for yourselves. A topo and full route description are now available on the updated page on the VOC wiki:

http://www.ubc-voc.com/wiki/Europa

Matthew

[LouisMarks]

I guess that is what Jeff had in his mind. He knows that most people are ready to hire a hood cleaner for their kitchen, but who cares when it comes to cleaning for climbers, that too for free? So he did it by himself. Bravo Jeff!