cleaning project

[workingman]

I went to climb Millinieum Falcon yesterday early morning and hiked up to find the area at the bottom taped off. (thanks for doing that). I have to say we were a little ticked off at the time being that we had looked forward to climbing this route for a while and my buddy had just drove from Bend to do it. After a day of climbing sweet Squamish granite all hard feelings were gone and we both realized that an easy route to the top of the Cheif might be a good thing. (Though, isnt that what Squamish Buttress is?) Anyhow I was just wondering if someone could post a note or somthing at the trailhead sign so that people dont have to walk all the way to the base before they find out about this project.
Thanks,
Brandon

[Jeff Mottershead]

With regards to putting a note up, at the base of the trail, I've bounced that off Kevin McLane. He's discouraged me from doing that, because he's concerned that people who are not climbers will see it, ask questions and raise a ruckus. I'll raise it with him again, and see if he sees things differently now.

In general, though, we're cleaning at night. On the morning of the 8th, a party of three finished pulling trees at first light, near the top, and began a three-person rappel to the bottom, which took about an hour. The signs were then removed. In general, if it's a nice morning, and the signs are up, all you need to do is wait a bit, and they'll be removed shortly.

Sorry about this. We're doing all we can to minimize the impact of our work, but it's tough to do so with the volume we're removing and the traffic during the days. Please bear with us.

Thanks,
Jeff

[itsonlyadream]

I went to climb Millinieum Falcon yesterday early morning and hiked up to find the area at the bottom taped off. (thanks for doing that). I have to say we were a little ticked off at the time being that we had looked forward to climbing this route for a while and my buddy had just drove from Bend to do it. After a day of climbing sweet Squamish granite all hard feelings were gone and we both realized that an easy route to the top of the Cheif might be a good thing. (Though, isnt that what Squamish Buttress is?) Anyhow I was just wondering if someone could post a note or somthing at the trailhead sign so that people dont have to walk all the way to the base before they find out about this project.
Thanks,
Brandon

If you're talking about Sunday Sept 9 we did climb it to Bellygood that afternoon. The new route is a cleaning project the way Napoleon invading Russia was a social call. I advise civilians to avoid the theater.

I took some pictures of climbers on Millenium Falcon on Tuesday afternoon (Sept 11) which they are welcome to copies of if they can get in touch.

[Jeff Mottershead]

I'm sorry about the mess on Millennium Falcon. It's particularly bad now, because another person, developing some harder route that crosses Europa chopped off a bunch of trees we were going to leave, creating a bunch of stumps on Europa. We're trying to leave Europa stump-free, so they were pulled by a group of volunteers the night of the 8th. This probably left a couple stumps and root balls stuck on the cliff, although the largest found its way to the bottom, and was dragged off the trail.

Any new sawed-off trees, though, are nothing to do with us.

We had planned to clean off Millennium Falcon by now, but me breaking my ankle like an idiot has thrown a wrench in that. I will do something about Millennium Falcon as soon as I can walk. I know that's little consolation to people wanting to climb Millennium Falcon, but there's not so much I can do about it.

In general, as this project goes on, I'm getting a very large amount of people telling me that we're doing the right thing, giving me money to offset the over $10000 I've spent on the project, offering to help, etc., and a significant, although not nearly as large chunk of people that don't like disruption, the heavy-handed approach we're taking, the fact that we're raising money for a cleaning project, etc.

I believe that we're doing the right thing, because a large majority of people I meet tell me so. I'd really like to please everyone, but it's just not possible, as different people want to see different things happen. For those inconvienienced, I am sorry, but now that we've started, a bunch of people have paid good money to see this thing happen, and many more want to climb it, I really don't see any other option other than full speed ahead.

Please bear with us. The affected climbs will be back to normal next year, and Europa will be done.

Jeff

[t-bone]

put me down on the list of people who disagree with your little cleaning project. I think the heavy-handed approach is incongruous with the Chief's status as a Provincial Park and your actions reflect poorly on the climbing community.

[workingman]

Hey thats cool man. Plenty of stuff to climb in Squamish. I just thought a note at the trail head would be nice. Glad that your ankle is doing better.
-B

[itsonlyadream]

I'd really like to please everyone, but it's just not possible, as different people want to see different things happen.

Jeff

Whoa. The idea of trying to please anyone let alone everyone scares me as a climber. I don't think even conventional standards of climbing behaviour can be applied to this cleaning project. Just someone please write an essay, article, or book on it detailing the relationships forged, marriages broken, etc.

I did not find that climbing Millenium Falcon was much affected by the new route, except for a short section before the traverse where we had to climb past cannon being dragged through the mud.

On the other hand, if this is the wave of the future, then the so-called climbing community, the Parks, the Federal Government, and the UN have cause for alarm.

[numa_cruiser]

Hey Jeff, just want to encourage you with what you are doing. A project like that and the amount of dedication it requires would have turned off a majority of climbers by now. Just the fact that you've been online asking for peoples opinions and apologizing for the minor inconveniences speaks volumes for your integrity and standing within the climbing community. As the planet warms and the rock disappears under moss and shrubs, there are going to need to be more and more efforts like this to open new routes. (and keep old ones open) I look forward to climbing Europa one day and hope to never see t-bone or any of the other nay-sayers partaking in the fruits of your labour. People just need their next reason to b%$ch...you just happen to be that reason right now. Keep it up and get better!

[Dru]

I don't see how cleaning Europa is any different than, say, cleaning Digital Dexterity or any of those vegetated routes right of Pixie Corner by the stairs. No matter how clean you make it, one wet winter with little traffic for a few months will see thick slime and moss magically re appear. It is a naturally seeping, wet, shaded drainage area which is why it is so heavily treed to begin with. The difference between Crap Crags and the Echelon/ Ultimate Everything area is pretty strong in this regard, Crap Crags is a continuous bush line while Echelon wall has tree ledges but plenty of clean dry walls that the UE links up.. So while I admire the dedication of scrubbing away at one route for so long I am pretty sure it is a wasted effort.

[t-bone]

IMHO, there is a difference between scraping a little moss off Digital Dexterity and using Come-a-Longs to rip trees off the Chief.
But I agree that after a wet winter, Europa will re-vegetate and disappear...

Jeff, I applaud your tenacity, but really - isn't it a futile effort?

[Jeff Mottershead]

With regards to t-bones valid concerns about how the work being done fits in with the park, the park staff have been informed regularly since before cleaning began about what we're doing, methods, etc. There is no mechanism for the BC Parks to approve any action taken by anyone that is not park staff, but at no point have they said anything discouraging about any of what we are doing. Anyone is entitled to the opinion that the park staff are in the wrong too, but I do want to make it clear that we're being totally above-board about all our actions.

It's worth noting that projects in the parks are always a balance between the disruption created and the change to the natural environment versus the effect that the project has on access. Bulldozing straight through a park sounds pretty terrible, but they do it all the time, to make access roads and parking lots. They even do blasting. It's a huge change and disruption, but it's considered worth it, based on the improved access.

The fact that there have been no objections from the park staff, even when they are directly told what we are doing gives a pretty strong indication that they believe the disruption and change created by what we are doing is justified by the fact that Europa will allow the vast majority of climbers to climb the Cheif, not just the top 25%. A lot of climbers come to Squamish that would love to find a route to the top that they can do, but discover that there isn't one.

With regards to questions about moss growing back, I'll stress again that where there was bare rock on this route, there was little or no moss. It's true that it's wet a lot of the year, but it doesn't get much light either. The same is true for Millennium Falcon, which manages to stay clean (except when I screw it up), has the same exposure, and is right beside Europa. Millennium Falcon also has traffic disrupted in the spring due to the falcon closure. Millennium Falcon gets a largish amount of traffic on it, which helps to keep it clean. Given that there are a lot more 5.7 climbers than 11a climbers, and that there are a lot of 11a routes to the top, but only one 5.7 route to the top, I don't think it's even a remote possibility that there won't be much more traffic on Europa.

It's probably also worth noting that Kevin McLane has a very good sense of which routes will re-vegitate and which ones won't, as he needs to climb or talk to someone that's recently climbed every route in Squamish in order to put out each new edition of his guidebook. He's convinced that Europa will stay clean once cleaned, and regularly advises me to keep going on as I have been.

While the question of whether what we are doing is appropriate or not has no right or wrong answer, only opinions, I am confident that the route will not re-vegitate, and that time will prove me right there.

[Charlie]

Regardless of whether the route grows over or not doesnt matter. The FAist will have the pleasure of climbing it and I hope the FAist is the dude who put the most work into cleaning the mother

[J Mace]

Right on Jeff!!!

[Trick]

I doubt that this will be an issue. I'd bet this route is going to see as much traffic as Deidre. I think lineups will be it's biggest downfall. Keep on keep'n on Jeff!! This is going to be a great addition to the climbing in Squamish.

[Peter]

With regards to putting a note up, at the base of the trail, I've bounced that off Kevin McLane. He's discouraged me from doing that, I'll raise it with him again, and see if he sees things differently now.

Thanks,
Jeff

Since when did Kevin Mclane become the spokesperson for the climbing community??