stairway to heaven ... final answer

[stick]

I've heard several people lately debating weather Stairway to heaven' s final pitches are fully bolted or not all through the broken telephone... can anyone just give me a sure yes or no?

Bolts make the line obvious so i just want to know that if i'm running it out i'm on the right line.

thanks

[Kevin]

Thanks for the question... I'd like to try and clear up the confusion that seems to be happening over Stairway to Heaven.

The guidebook topo on pages 294-295 implies the numbered pitches 9, 10, 13 (part), 14 and 15 as being the line to follow. The pitches are marked "project", but that is all too contradictory and the topo should have shown the route as being the way the FA was done, via Millenium Falcon and the last pitch of the Black Dyke. The text description on page 238 is correct, however. Given that the job is not yet finished, the topo's obvious enthusiasm for the project was premature, and my apologies to anyone who feels sandbagged or who has been inconvenienced by this.

The cleaning I've done since (last year especially) has contributed to people being drawn off left. However, one special difficulty with finishing the route is the amount of rock and wood that has to be trundled. Most all of it lands at the base of the Grand. Small stones can land as far away as Apron Strings on a windy day.

Working on the route means marking off the base at 5am on heavy rain days and humping the big bag up the Chief. Those days are good for trundling, but not cleaning, and traversy lines are very time-consuming to work on. This late fall I'll be back on it, and all being well, the job should be finished by next season. Then there'll be 8 continuous pitches from Bellygood straight into Mr Ciechanowski, and 18 in all from the start to the top of the Chief.

Again, my apologies to everyone for the confusion, and I hope this explanation helps.

Kevin McLane

[XXXX]

what about bad pants party kevin, do you have an apology for that too

[harihari]

what about bad pants party kevin, do you have an apology for that too

you climb something and it wasn't exactly as specified in the book. the HORROR!

[thebigchin]

Why would you think that McLean should apologize for someone giving him bad beta? Do you really think that he climbs everything himself to verify the beta?

Look up the person that put the route up and get them to apologize. Or do like I did and send Kevin an email with your thoughts about the route and he'll change his next printing to reflect the consensus. No need to hack on the guy. Sheesh!!

[climbit]

it is one thing to give beta for free, but if you sell it, you should make sure it is good

[thebigchin]

Fair 'nuff, but when you consider how many routes are in that book, to have 1 or 2 that are messed up is well within the acceptable rate, IMHO.

Also, Kevin has to rely on the first ascentionist in many cases. Mostly they're going to give good information. In some situations, you're going to get a sandbag.

Sure, the route is harder and scruffier than advertised, but its easy to get off of it if you have to. I just don't think it was a big enough deal to publicly slam someone, especially for an honest mistake. It's not like he intentionally through in a sandbag to mess people up.

[harihari]

agreed-- now if you want to see sketchy guidebook, check out the Yosemite one (hasn't been updated since what, '92?), or the J-tree one (zero beta), or (God forbid) Swain's first Red Rocks one. The more you climb elsewhere, the more you realise that McLane's is actually very well researched etc, esp. considering that any guidebook writer relies primarily on others for their info.

if you want to contribute, call or email him. he will send you an old guidebook and you can scribble in it, and he adds these emendations to his new editions. also remember that BPParty was done not long before the new edition came out, so there wasn't likely tons of time for people to correct the mistake.

Fair 'nuff, but when you consider how many routes are in that book, to have 1 or 2 that are messed up is well within the acceptable rate, IMHO.

Also, Kevin has to rely on the first ascentionist in many cases. Mostly they're going to give good information. In some situations, you're going to get a sandbag.

Sure, the route is harder and scruffier than advertised, but its easy to get off of it if you have to. I just don't think it was a big enough deal to publicly slam someone, especially for an honest mistake. It's not like he intentionally through in a sandbag to mess people up.

[XXXX]

i would question wheter bad pants party has ever been done... it was still dirty as f**k and with rotting fixed ropes all over it in the spring when we did it

[jefffski]

The guidebook topo on pages 294-295 implies the numbered pitches 9, 10, 13 (part), 14 and 15 as being the line to follow. The pitches are marked "project", but that is all too contradictory and the topo should have shown the route as being the way the FA was done, via Millenium Falcon and the last pitch of the Black Dyke. The text description on page 238 is correct, however. G

Kevin McLane

To be clear, are the project pitches now completed and graded?

thanks.

[rockandsnowjunkie]

Man, rough thread! How about we're appreciative of the fact that, as a result of Kevin's work, we have a comprehensive guide to climbing in Squamish - perfect beta or not. Flaws exist, and noting them is a good thing - as other have noted, sending a polite email is being constructive an productive to the entire process. Should criticism continue, I'd suggest throwing away your copy of Kevin's book, and creating your own 'perfect version', then, when you realize how difficult and immense and undertaking this is, purchase another "Squamish Guide" - I'm sure Kevin won't mind.

Cheers.

[jefffski]

Man, rough thread! How about we're appreciative of the fact that, as a result of Kevin's work, we have a comprehensive guide to climbing in Squamish - perfect beta or not. Flaws exist, and noting them is a good thing - as other have noted, sending a polite email is being constructive an productive to the entire process. Should criticism continue, I'd suggest throwing away your copy of Kevin's book, and creating your own 'perfect version', then, when you realize how difficult and immense and undertaking this is, purchase another "Squamish Guide" - I'm sure Kevin won't mind.

Cheers.

oops. I should add that i am a big fan of Kevin's guidebooks and route work. No criticism intended whatsoever.

[jefffski]

For those who are interested:

My partner and I climbed the upper pitches of STH today.

As per the guidebook we climbed the 1st pitch of upper Millenium Falcon, the next 3 pitches of STH (8, 9, 10, 11, 12) and finished up the newly cleaned last pitch of the black dyke.

A fun day on good rock with very fun exposure on the traverse of the gods.

I am still wondering about the pitches north of the Black Dyke.