New take on an old route at Shannon Falls

[sherri]

Potato,

I actually did just that with the existing aid piece, but, honestly, I felt silly bothering with it because that old bolt is so thin and rusty I think it would snap easily with any force.

[Don]

+1 on Sherri's debating points

I climbed it with an old buddy who at one time was alot bolder than me (having kids changes your attitude, I guess) .. he opted to lower to the mid anchor and give me a go.

I arrived at the slab just as a friend was finishing Skywalk , so I got a rope lowered to me

Either way, fantastic route..

[DirtBagClimber]

Just to add to my reply. I dont think climbing should be for everyone its important to keep our old ethics alive plus theirs plenty of well protected climbs in the area that you can go to if a run out is an issue or hike up and set up a top rope. Instead of adding a bolt people should practice their mental strength instead of making it easier for them by adding bolts. If you cant do it without a bolt your simply not ready for it. Climbing is inherently dangerous lets keep it that way. No hard feelings if a bolt is added it just wont be the same experience or it wont have cool whipper stories attach to it. Lets make this climb legendary !

Olivier

[longtimelurker]

Did this route on Saturday, and a few degrees cooler would have been nice for the dyke holds at the finish! I am normally opposed to adding more gear to runout climbs, and this section was not a big fall. However, I have to agree with the previous comments about adding a bolt, as I felt the last bit was out of character with the rest of the climb. It eats the gear, and more people should get up to try the upper crack section which was killer, but most are going to be put off by the last moves, which is a shame on a great new addition. Again, thanks for the work, and I would do it again with or without the bolt.

[jstod]

I haven't climbed this route yet but am really looking forward to giving it a go. Clearly that leaves me unqualified to comment on the specific nature of the runout climbing here but i can think of several classic cracks in Squamish that feature bold moves well above gear.

Here are a few:

Yorkshire Gripper 11b - slab topout/mantle with gear below feet.
Burgers and Fries 5.7 - runout slab/face to the anchor.
Caboose 10b - slab finish to chains after you get out of the corner.
Electric Ball 11b - slab finish with last piece of gear placed below feet.
Sunblessed 10a - big runout on the first pitch just to get to the super classic 2nd pitch.

I'm sure there are more…

Point is, each of these routes continue to be sought-after classics for those climbing at those grades. A 5.7 climber on Burgers might be easily as spooked as a 10- climber on Caboose or an 11- climber on Electric Ball, but that, along with the ultra high quality nature of the crack climbing is what makes these climbs memorable and somewhat unique.

For me, climbing new routes outside at any grade is about moving into unknown (for me) waters in a calculated way, with a willingness to deal with whatever the climb throws my way. For many, cracks and bold slabs are the essence of climbing in Squamish and I look forward to both on this route. Whether humbled or elated at the end, i'm sure the experience will be a good one in the long run.

Julian

[scrubber]

Great banter and thoughts! Thanks everyone!

Kris

[tobyfk]

I led this today and have a few thoughts.

It is a very high-quality pitch. Similar to, but better than, Rainy Day Dream Away, which is in the Squamish Select Top 100. The upper section is especially good. There is a great small ledge/ spike feature before it, where you can take some time to enjoy the position and observe the conga line on Skywalker ...

Grade is about right. For me the final slab moves were the crux. They reminded me vaguely of Sammy's Frog in the Bluffs, which also gets 10c.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, the antique bolt has been bent upwards, presumably by someone trying to clip/ thread it. As long as it stays there it will get used in that way, until it breaks or pulls-out under load. So I think it should either be chopped completely or replaced with a proper bolt. I didn't try to use it and wasn't especially fussed by the short runout (I am not very brave). Frankly, with 40m of rope out, anyone falling off there is going for a little slide down the slab, bolt or no-bolt. So a bolt would only serve a psychological purpose. If forced to have an opinion, I would say "no-bolt".

Actually I had a much longer runout lower down on the pitch where there is a ~8m section of green camalot sized crack, and I had no greens (or purples) left. I had misread the description, thinking it would all be small stuff up there, and had happily used up all my medium-sized cams on the easy lower section. If you are as stupid as me, taking three purples and three greens for the lead wouldn't be a bad idea.

Oh and besides all the route scrubbing, Kris has done a really pro job on the approach trail too.

[tobyfk]

I haven't climbed this route yet but am really looking forward to giving it a go. Clearly that leaves me unqualified to comment on the specific nature of the runout climbing here but i can think of several classic cracks in Squamish that feature bold moves well above gear.

Here are a few:

Yorkshire Gripper 11b - slab topout/mantle with gear below feet.
Burgers and Fries 5.7 - runout slab/face to the anchor.
Caboose 10b - slab finish to chains after you get out of the corner.
Electric Ball 11b - slab finish with last piece of gear placed below feet.
Sunblessed 10a - big runout on the first pitch just to get to the super classic 2nd pitch.

I have led four of these five (I have only TR'd Caboose). As bearbreeder wrote, objectively YG is not really runout at all, though, before I led it, I was told that someone had once got hurt on it. Must have been unlucky or really screwed up the placements.

Re the other three (and assuming we are talking about the direct finish to Electric Ball): I would say they are all both longer runouts and more serious than Jump to Lightspeed. If you fell at the wrong spot on Sunblessed first pitch you would hit the ground, and from the other two you could hit ledges. The potential fall from Jump to Lightspeed is totally clean.

[NateDoggOG]

The first pitch of Evaporation in the Bluffs has a pretty heavy runout off the last bolt to the anchor. Also slabby and similar to Sammy's Frog.
I haven't climbed JTLS yet but hope to once I make it back up to Squamish. I suppose the appropriate course of action, in my opinion, is leave it as is, and go with the classic slab climbers approach of being too scared to fall. Of course my opinion could change after I climb it.

[Kyle]

My opinion is that the old bolt should be removed and the grade should be 10d. The bolt is an annoyance and although the moves at the top might not quite be 10d face moves; they feel 5.11 after coming out of the thin end of the crack. Again, no one has to agree with me. Just spraying my opinion. AMAZING climb though regardless!

[rolfr]

Another opinion from an old route setter.
When Colin Moorehead established Sunset Strip he asked my permission to add a bolt at the starting 5.10 scary slab. Adding that bolt made my overgrown first pitch of Sticky Finger popular again, and in a very small part contributed to the popularity of Sunset Strip.
Shutting down climbers on a moderate route with one unprotected sequence will just guarantee the route will be reclaimed by moss and debris.
Making a statement isn't that important as you get older, seeing people enjoy your hard work is much more rewarding.

[Kyle]

I think that if the old nostalgic bolt gets replaced with a new proper bolt on JTLS, it will definitely have line ups at it every weekend and be in the next top 100 five star routes. Although without the bolt its probably candidate for the Squamish's stiffest routes thread.

[tobyfk]

Shutting down climbers on a moderate route with one unprotected sequence

Have you actually climbed the route, Rolf?

[SGB]

People will climb this route for the 5.10 crack climbing not the slab finish
No question this pitch adds to the many quality routes that exist at Shannon falls
Gotta agree with Rolf on this one. He has been around a long time and seen the consequences of adding a bolt later or watching routes slowly green over. A bolt would keep this pitch hugely popular especially for the aspiring 10 crack leaders.

Up to scrubber in the end as someone said upthread, but definitely a mix of opinons here

BTW, with respect to Sunblessed, that start is 5.8 to first bolt. And the finish to Caboose is 5.9. Both a little different compared to this route (although one wouldn't want to fall on that Caboose finish)

[tobyfk]

BTW, with respect to Sunblessed, that start is 5.8 to first bolt. And the finish to Caboose is 5.9. Both a little different compared to this route (although one wouldn't want to fall on that Caboose finish)

Well, considering Sunblessed and - if I understand correctly - the original pre-bolt start to Sticky Finger that Rolf just mentioned, they are "a little different" to JTLS in that you are (were) risking ground-fall and injury. On JTLS a bolt would only serve to change a potential harmless slide into a slightly-shorter harmless slide. They are not good comparisons.