Simul Climbing Fall Inhibitor

[jonny2vests]

Anyone ever used one? Don't really know what the proper name is, but I saw someone using one yesterday.

Its basically a smooth running autoblock that limits the leaders fall if the second comes off, you attach it to a suitable anchor once your in simul mode. If the second falls, the force is taken by the autoblock rather than the leader.

Anyone got any experience using these? Any tips? I have a Troll Rocker and I suspect it might do the job. The guy I saw was using some eastern block thing, which you can't get anymore.

[gnarnaphobe]

Seems like a hassle. Just put the strongest climber on the dull end and don't fall.

[Dru]

Seems like a hassle. Just put the strongest climber on the dull end and don't fall.

+1. And don't get any slack in the rope if you do mess around with the Ushba or Tiblock on the rope because if you fall dynamically either one of those will sever the rope at around 5kn.

[jonny2vests]

Awesome, thanks Bearbreeder, just what I was looking for.

[jonny2vests]

Seems like a hassle. Just put the strongest climber on the dull end and don't fall.

Unfortunately things aren't always as black and white as that.

[jonny2vests]

http://www.hse.gov.uk/research/crr_pdf/ ... r01364.pdf

A friend of mine conducted those tests. Looks like they didn't like the Ushba.

Further to point no. 4 above, if I have the autobloc on a long extender, would it not ride up and then I'd get pulled off if the second fell? Is it not better clipped direct to the bolt with gear soon after (hopefully).

[Dru]

the ushba cutting the rope test i believe was done with a factor 2 dynamic drop on a static rope with weights. if you have a factor 2 on a second falling, you have exceptionally serious issues IMO.

If you have a foot or two of slack in the system, such as when simuling at different speeds, and the second falls, you can easily exceed a factor 2 force on an intermediate fall arrester, the same way you can get a factor 5 fall with a 5m fall on a via ferrata.

the other way around, with 5 or 6 ropemen or tiblocks or whatever on gear between the simuling parties, isn't much faster than pitching it out so why not just pitch it out and climb faster.

[gnarnaphobe]

isn't much faster than pitching it out so why not just pitch it out and climb faster

+1

[jonny2vests]

i really cant see this ... maybe its my lack of imagination ... but unless the second climber climbs above the piece how would a factor 2 ...

I too am perplexed by that statement. I guess it's snatchier than normal, but a factor 2 or higher? Surely it's a completely different scenario with via Ferrara.

Dru, I think for pitches you know well, say moving on obligatory terrain to access something more interesting, it can be much faster than pitching. For onsighting, its not normally a big time saver, in fact, it can slow you down.

[jonny2vests]

i really cant see this ... maybe its my lack of imagination ... but unless the second climber climbs above the piece how would a factor 2 ...

I too am perplexed by that statement. I guess it's snatchier than normal, but a factor 2 or higher? Surely it's a completely different scenario with via Ferrata.

Dru, I think for pitches you know well, say moving on obligatory terrain to access something more interesting, it can be much faster than pitching. For onsighting, its not normally a big time saver, in fact, it can slow you down.

[harihari]

I've used this sytem tons and it works well. But it's for easy ground, not for sick hard stuff.

a) the second does nto tie in-- the rope runs through a grigri. 20 m or so of slack trails the 2nd-- this keeps the Grigri upright and allows the rope to slide up/down the grigri as the speed of leader and 2nd vary.

b) when the leader installs a tiblock/ushba, it MUST be installed so that there is no wiggle, and the piece must be equalised for upa nd down forces (ie oppsoed nuts/cams, or on a bolt).

c) there should be no slack between leader and 2nd

d) if the leader gets to where things get sketchy, s/he should stop, tell the 2nd to climb and then clip to the next piece, and put leader on belay.

[jonny2vests]

I've used this sytem tons and it works well.

Thanks. Like the Grigri thing.

[harihari]

B*tch, please...

[jonny2vests]

B*tch, please...

Erm,...what?

[harihari]

Johnny2vests-- sorry-got hacked (left my comp open). I will see if I can delete that