New Fixed Chain on Broadway

[jipstyle]

We don't need to have the same debate every time that this happens. The community shows itself, over and over, to be against adding hardware on classic 4th class scrambles.

New climbers are welcome to learn the same way that we did ... with their hearts in their throats and their mentors grinning evilly.

[NateDoggOG]

QFT!!!!!

[quantum7]

So...most days I like checking out this board because I love climbing and when I read about new routes or other's sweet sends it helps fuel my own stoke. I also enjoy the debates that come and go. However, it is pretty sad when the debates turn juvenile and this board moves from being a forum of open discussion to something that resembles more of an elementary school playground. That's not to say everything has to be straight laced and serious, but come on - calling someone a retard because they are trying to voice an opinion in a language that is second to them? It seems a bit much. Hell, if I tried to write on a French message board I would barely make it past bonjour. Had BSP been in favour chopping the chains I wonder if his/her writing would have been slammed in the same way and the term retard still used. Just something to think about... Personally, I see both sides of the argument, but I like to think that if I was strongly in favour of one side or the other, I would keep the debate civil.

[relic]

Yes you are right quantum that was pretty juvenile of me. BSP, I am sorry. You didn't deserve the name calling.

[jipstyle]

I'll buy you beer, relic, if ever we meet .. good on ya.

[Optimally-Primed]

Greetings from Manitoba!

The chain about which many of you bicker... I put it there.

Like it? Grab it as you walk past.

Dislike it? Chop it. The bolts are overdrilled. Clean it up nice.

enough hot air

[Squamishmonkey]

Hi Jeremy,
Thanks for the chain, the clean up is done.
Next time I'm in Winnipeg we should have a beer.
Regards
Eric

[Anders Ourom]

Squamishmonkey, did you remove the chain and bolts shown in the photo, and whatever else may have been placed? If so, what else was done to tidy up?

Perhaps responsible parties such as the Access Societies and BC Parks could discuss the proliferation of convenience anchors (bolts, chains, ropes) on approaches and descents at Squamish, and work out a consensus. Starting with Broadway, from the north end gully/chimney below the Baldwin Ledge through to the scramble down to the top of Diedre, and then the scramble past the top of Slab Alley. (Maybe also the exit from the top of the Roman Chimneys, and other spots.) Emphasizing education and awareness as much as anything.

There may be a limited place for these installations, but they should be thoroughly discussed before being placed. We have a limited resource at Squamish, and increasing pressure, and don't want the place to end up like some areas in the Alps. Dumbing the place down for convenience, and often commercial reasons, isn't the way to go.

[cmoorhead]

Hi Anders,

This is the second time I've seen you suggest that commercial interests are responsible for and/or in support of "convenience" anchors or fixed ropes. Being fairly involved with the local guiding community I would have to say this kind of statement is incorrect and would kindly ask you to refrain from implying so. Canadian guides are highly trained and are very capable of dealing with third and fourth class terrain without fixed ropes, etc. Fixed chain on Broadway, installed by a recreational climber removed by a guide.

-Colin

[J Mace]

Remember when a single bolt suddenly appeared there about 12 years ago? It lasted less than a week...

I do, remember why it was placed?

[scrubber]

I do, remember why it was placed?

Not clearly, but I seem to remember that it showed up less than a week before an assistant rock guide exam. Whether or not these two incidents were related, I don't know, but there was a public perception at the time of a link between them.

As an ex-full-time guide, and a now full-time dad and occasional guide, I second Colin's statements about any of the professional climbing guides in the area not needing a chain or bolts to deal safely with terrain like that. If your grandma can still walk, we could get her safely across there. It's what we do.

K

[Anders Ourom]

Good grief! I was hardly suggesting that commercial climbers (including more than just guides) would install such things for their own use. However, experience in other areas suggests that they often do so for the benefit of their clients, and to facilitate their operations.

[scrubber]

No offense taken Anders. I'm in no way insinuating that the guiding industry is innocent of such things. It has, and likely will continue to happen. Public consensus (if ever there can be such a thing) will dictate whether or not the installations will remain.

A few other examples:
1. Two bolts beside the Split Pillar, and one beside the top of the Sword. Didn't last due to public consensus. (Thank goodness in my opinion)
2. Bolted stations on Diedre. Did stand the test of time, just to speed things up with the considerable volume on the route.

K

Still looking forward to climbing with you if our schedules ever line up!

[Dru]

The first bolted stations on Diedre were placed by Jim Sinclair way back in the early 70s to cut down on the piton scarring of the cracks at the belays .

[psi4ce]

OK, I SERIOUSLY debated making this posting, because SERIOUSLY mad respect to Optimally Primed for his continual amazing contributions to Squamish climbing. Thanks, Bro!

But, I have to call out WTF on placing the chain. I mean, how could you not know that the community was against it?

A punk rock parting gift, perhaps?