Multi Pitch Politeness when stuck behind slow folks.

[Stephen Hooper]

Hi, I am new to multi-pitch climbing and was stuck behind some really slow climbers today. I was not sure what would be considered rude so I smiled and waited an hr on one of the pitches so we would both have breathing room.

So my question would be how do you people deal with this problem when different climbing parties bunch up mid route?

[NateDoggOG]

Leader of your party meets them at one set of anchors, says, 'hey, mind if we run past you?' and if they are cool, they say no go ahead, or if they decide to be asses, then they'll say yeah we mind, usually in a rude tone. Most slower parties are pretty cool about it, you just have to ask.

[c-plus]

It's fun too when you've got a hot-shot guy taking his ladyfriend up a climb that's clearly over her head. First he refuses to let you pass cause he claims they're actually fast, and then it gets really fun (read: awkward) since you've now got a front row seat to watch them as she goes super slow, then freaks out, and then starts yelling and cursing at him for dragging her out there.

Good times.

if you see a party ahead on a climb, first watch them for a bit before you start and judge how fast you think they're going. If they're slow, be prepared to get stuck behind them, especially if the belays suck for passing (no ledges). If they do let you pass, repay the courtesy by quickly getting past them.

-C

[Stephen Hooper]

Just to switch gears then, I would assume it is rude to climb up to and clip into the partys anchor while they are still belaying or getting ready to climb. From what I can read above it really comes down to just being polite, considerate, and just smiling when other people are just determined to have it their way?

Is there a good resource for multi pitch etiquette I could read up on that anyone knows of?

[NateDoggOG]

It probably isn't the best idea for you to clip into their personal anchor, but the belay station doesn't belong to them.
Ideally if there is a party one pitch above you, then both your party and theirs will have their leader climbing at the same time. You don't want hit their belay before they've even started climbing, but as soon as their leader heads up, there is only one person at their belay. You go up, clip in, now there are two people at the belay (your leader and their second who is belaying their leader).

Hopefully by around the time you've set up your anchor and pulled up the slack and what not, their second will be just about ready to climb, so you can start belaying your second up, so by the time they reach you, the party ahead should be getting ready to continue climbing, and now you can swap gear and leads, take a drink, whatever.

Properly, there is nothing with one person from two separate parties anchored in to the same place. Three people is getting to be a bit much, so don't get up there before their leader has left, and your second shouldn't be up there before their second has left.

If they have an issue with you being there at the same time, that's when politely ask if they'd mind you passing them at the next belay.

[thebigchin]

Ideally you wouldn't head up right behind another party. There are lots of climbs around.

Realize that if you DO catch up to another party, then they absolutely have the prerogative to say, "No, I'd rather not have you pass".

[solojourneys]

Good topic.

Obviously, we are all 'slow climbers' on some grades. On 10s and low 11s I'm fast, but I'm slow as sh!t when I lead 12s.

So I'm frequently in one of two positions; either stuck behind a slow party on a moderate route like the Grand, or holding up some rippers on a harder route like Freeway.

I don't know what the proper 'etiquette' is supposed to be, but generally if I am behind a very slow party I will ask to pass if there is a reasonable belay station. Trying to pass slowpokes on a hanging belay is obviously uncomfortable, dangerous, and stupid. Often times I will try to link pitches or simul-climb past a slower party, asking their permission first.

A really slow party which refuses to let fast climbers pass, at a reasonable belay station, is extremely rude.

A few anecdotes on the subject from my own recent experience ...

I was following an extremely slow three-person party on the NE Ridge of Bugaboo Spire in August, an epic 12 pitch route. My friend and I were planning to simul-climb or solo the entire ridge, and when I asked to pass, the reply was 'get comfortable buddy'. We passed anyway, much to their chagrin. The slowpokes were benighted; at midnight in our cozy basecamp we saw their headlamps bobbling around on the summit.

Another recent experience was being passed on Freeway by a faster party; having offered to let them pass earlier at a reasonable station, they declined, and then ripped by me while I was literally in the middle of a pitch, approaching a crux move. And they tangled the ropes, such that a lead fall by the passer would have likely friction-sliced our ropes.

I don't think there is any hard-and-fast rule in the 'passing lane'. Just be safe, smart, and courteous - and use good judgment!

Jesse James

[Anders Ourom]

A really slow party which refuses to let fast climbers pass, at a reasonable belay station, is extremely rude.

Ummm, I'm afraid not. A slower party may have chosen to get an earlier start because they don't want the risk of others climbing above them, and dropping rocks or equipment on them. If you choose to climb behind such a party, you're accepting the risk that they'll drop something on you, and also that they won't allow you to pass, for any or no reason. If you don't like that, consider another route.

It is a sad reality that slower parties often know they're slower, and get up earlier so as to allow enough time. (Probably every single one of us once did that.) They don't have as much choice - if you are faster, stronger and more experienced, consider an alternative that's less traveled. And if you want to climb a popular moderate route on a weekend, be prepared to wait.

The one rule of etiquette that I'd encourage is that parties of three (or more) on more popular routes of two or more pitches should be strongly discouraged, at least when anyone else is on the route. A party of three by definition usually climbs significantly more slowly than a party of two.

Hopefully we'll never get to the point seen elsewhere, where some climbers behave as though they own the rock and climbs, and so act quite aggressively in passing others.

[thebigchin]

A really slow party which refuses to let fast climbers pass, at a reasonable belay station, is extremely rude.

Ummm, I'm afraid not.

+1

I fully agree.

[Fish Boy]

I agree too.

How about simul climbers? Same deal I guess with the whole dropping stuff scenario. My bud and I were simuling calculus two days ago and got very grumpy comments and stares as we passed some folks. We asked, were incredibly polite and thankful, and I got down to 10 meters behind my partner so we would only make them wait at the anchor for 30 extra seconds...other parties were unhappy too...

Oh well, sorry folks!

[psi4ce]

I agree as well.

"Slow" is relative.

Point A. Sure, there are times when passing another party can be considered appropriate. And, usually, it all works out just fine. I mean if a party is truly slow and there is a major issue with that, the slow party usually knows it and usually will co-operate.

Point B. But, what seems "rude" to me is when I am climbing reasonably fast, and a stronger, faster party comes up from below and puts pressure on me at every belay. Chill out, dudes! If you can afford it, take your time and enjoy the climbing and the mountains. If you can't afford it, well then, see point A, I guess...

[NateDoggOG]

For the most part, even when I am soloing, I have no issues with waiting. As long a I am in a position where I can make myself comfortable/secure, then I can just hang out.
I'm weird; on some pitches, I get as much enjoyment seeing other people climb them for the first time (ie: Buttface) as I get climbing them myself. I get to meet and chill with some really cool people, or some strange ones, but no big deal.
They also recognize that I am climbing extremely fast, and I have never had anyone tell me I can't pass.
Huh, that rhymed.
Yeah, so point being, solo or not, as long as you are climbing significantly faster than the party above you, the majority of the time they will offer to let you pass them saving you asking.

On Jesse's note, if someone asks if you want to pass and you say no, you sure as hell better not b!tch about them being slow three pitches up.