Sate Le Hate

[XXXX]

Well actually I have never glued anything because i figure if it breaks off you just deal with it. Usually when a hold comes off it leaves a nice edge behind, on the routes I have cleaned anyways. But if it breaks off and you glue it right back on is there a difference than if you glued it before it broke off? Can you even tell the difference? I don't think it'd be easy. For all I know the Sport Temple was taken apart, carefully examined and then glued back together like a model airplane.

Vertical 40 foot 14d, what about John Gaskins' new vertical 18 foot 15a in Britain? On which he reglued a hold that broke, then someone else removed it and circled the scar and chalked on the message 'Naughty naughty" and he went bouldering for 3 years until he could do V15 then came back and sent minus missing hold?

[Pete L.]

I'm sure it's an often tried, beautiful route. Not!
If you had the choice would you go and try to repeat that line or a 120foot overhanging and consistant 15a? (that may have a chipped hold or two)
But, in the end, I don't really care.
Good send by him, though.

[Peter]

Quick point:

For those who don't know Sate was "given up" by the route setter to be climbed by someone who could do it.... even though it was chipped.

PS I thought that some of Peters routes had been chipped or was it just aggressive cleaning? FUBAR, Rock Lobster, and how about over bolting or the dog bolt on your new project. I feel that leaves more visible scars than a chipped hold most will never touch...

Being that Mike directed that at me: Rock Lobster-not chipped (where?)
Fubar-not chipped (as I recall it didn't even take that much cleaning) . I'm sorry the dog bolt bothers you, I never said chipping was an environmental thing for me or that I didn't like the look of it so that argument doesn't wash with me.

Thanx for comin' out.

[Peter]

Hey Winter,

You seriously think you wouldn't chip ehh. Never, under no circumstance. You have rapped the 22 pitch future 5.12c. You cleaned it all off. You bolted the entire thing. You have no spent about 1500 and well over 2 months cleaning. Freeze thaw over the winter loosens an entire section leaving it blank unless one hold is slightly enhanced. If you do not enhance it the the route will go at 5.17c, not quite cutting edge great but close. What would you do?

Gary

Hey FOSTER,
Do you really think I would spend that amount of time and $$$$ to put together a 22 pitcher? Forget it. (That's why I admire those guys that put up Millenium Falcon etc.) If "freeze thaw" sent a huge piece of it off then I didn't do a good enough job cleaning it. You seem to be the only one bringing up the freeze thaw theory Gary, that's a myth

[mr_staggerlee]

Peter wrote:

Being that Mike directed that at me: Rock Lobster-not chipped (where?)

Peter: Rock Lobster is chipped at the spot where I kept beating my head on it trying to figure out the @#$@! crux! If you look closely you will notice a forehead-shaped indentation in the rock.

G.

[Clive kessler]

Peter,

That post was mainly to keep the thread alive.

My point is this: What's the difference between aggressive cleaning ( all of the F.W. ) and a little chippin here and there?

The bit about the Dog bolt was put in just for fun.

But seriously, evenone has an opinion and that's fine. But why can't we just be satisfied that people (not unlike yourself) are doing their best to put up fun routes?

As Pete L. said... Those who don't like the chippin should take measures into their own hands, buy a drill, bolts, etc, and start bolting lines.

[Peter]

Don't get me wrong. I said I don't lose sleep over this stuff, but I will debate it for the sake of debate. I didn't start this thread, and I'm not trying to slag anyone's routes. The debate was about chipping, plain and simple. I think I'm done on this one.....let's talk about something else, how about short people saying every route is harder for them.

[stretch]

If I go and do Sate without the pocket can I fill it in?

Since the original post was about a certain veteran route developer, who has previously chipped, complaining about chipping let me say this; I too have previously chipped, but I no longer believe the ethics of the day allow for or require chipping. Similar to people no longer pinning out cracks (of course cams help alot). A fine example is Jordan Wright's down system. Had it been chipped out at the bottom it might have made a fine 13-, now it's a super powerful one move 5.14a (stiff at that). It was a project for many years before he did it. Definitely not a classic line (in my opinion) but a line that goes free nonetheless.

I admire and respect the amount of effort the developers put into an area, especially the areas that are being developed now, those require tons of effort. But the first come, first serve mentality stated above is very short sighted. Do we not all strive to get a little better, a little stronger. Granted Pete L is getting up there in the years but do you not feel like you are getting stronger year to year? Would you not have more satisfaction leaving a route, training hard only to return for a natural send rather than the instant gratification of chipping it down to a level you can climb immediately?

[Pete L.]

O.K. I'm at work with some time to kill so I'll respond to Stretch's post.

First off, not only am I getting older but also getting fatter!

Secondly, I guess I may be utterly mistaken in thinking that others out there look for the same qualities in a "good" route as I do.
Good length, consistency and interesting moves in my mind makes for a good route. I've climbed a lot of "good" routes all over the world and I have to tell you a lot of them where good due to the enhancements made.
I guess I'd rather climb a good 5.11 than a manky one-move-wonder 5.13. (It's funny how I never see a line up for Down System, in fact I've never seen anyone on it, but I've seen lots of guys on Pulse. One all natural, the other...)
I guess my feeling is to each his (or her) own. Don't like the drilled pocket don't use it. Think the route is over bolted, don't clip all the bolts.
Don't like enhanced routes, don't climb them. (you may not be climbing too many routes though) But if you do climb them don't b%$ch about them.
I love talking to people about how they hate enhanced routes and yet I see them spend a lot of time working to redpoint those same routes.

Seems to me that people are also a little disillusioned about the "future" climbers' abilities. We're nearing the 9.8 second 100 meter, or the 2:00 marathon. I don't think we'll ever see 5.15c or d.

I'm still waiting for someone to do "Airtest" at Skaha without any of the drilled pockets. Stretch?

[stretch]

I'm still waiting for someone to do "Airtest" at Skaha without any of the drilled pockets. Stretch?

I don't think this route would go without the drilled pockets and is a fine example of a route that perhaps just shouldn't "go". If you need to drill four "jugs" in a row that are visible from 20m below then perhaps that section of rock wasn't meant to be climbed. All I know is there's a route to the right of air test that I hope doesn't get down-chipped. It looks hard!! Wish I could spend more time there.

[Rock_Climber]

I'm just curious, if your putting up a route and your key hold breaks off, leaving you with a blank section of rock, why can't you just traverse and find another way around it? I'd like to know why this hasn't been talked about as an option. Obviously a route doesn't need to go completely straight up (although I see how that would make an easier time of cleaning).