Sate Le Hate

[Wes]

People talk about the 'Future 5-17' climber. By developing an entire area with the 'Ethics' that chipping is OK you are garenteeing someone that can climb that strong will NEVER come from Squamish. Reason, you are not give them the chance. You are destroying all opportunities for someone who possibly might be able to pull something off that is to YOU and your friends 'impossible'. Just so you can have your name in a guide book. The only acceptable solution to use MCpl suggestion and bolt on a small hold that can be removed by a stronger climber. Personnaly, I wouldn't, I would probably just abandon the project in hopes that someone will be able to pull it off. I would probably take more pride in knowing someone was able to pull off the 'Impossible' than get my name in some guide book for putting up an great 5-11 or 5-12 route.

[taranaki]

the grade 5.12 seems to talked about a lot by you guys. does that mean you are chipping sections of wall down to this grade so you can climb them? even sections that will go at 5.14?

[sled neck]

You may be right meingh, and there may even be times when enhancing a single hold can be justified, at least in an area like Chek where just cleaning a route requires major excavation. Is it ok then to assume that 2 or 3 chipped holds are ok? How about entirely manufactured routes? If your blank section is 8 or 10m off the ground why not put the anchor there?

The 22 pitch route on the chief on the other hand is an entirely different story. It's an area with strong trad ethics, and aguably a point of aid may scar the rock just as much or more than an enhanced hold, but it's the ethic of the area that is important and must be respected.

[XXXX]

i'd rather see a "Barley-free" aid bolt than a chipped edge or drilled pocket. lots of those "Barley-free" A0 moves go free at mid 5.12 now anyway.

anyways if i ripped off the one crucial hold on my proj i'd probably just glue it back on or give up. in fact when you hike up to ripple tower you go past a big cliff off on your left with a set of old chains. that used to be a project but we ripped off all the big holds cleaning it and trying to TR it so we gave up. i'm certain someone could still climb the line though using the small solid holds that are left - just not me. same with the arete downhill from peeler.

[taranaki]

meingh.
yeah, i was a bit vague. first let me say i don't have a strong opinion for or against chipping. the question i was trying to ask was if the routes in question are being chipped down to the level (climbing ability) of the bolter/cleaner to enable that person to get the first ascent?

[MCpl]

I told you it would go off on a tangent.

[bike]

Will it go to page four?

[Clive kessler]

Quick point:

For those who don't know Sate was "given up" by the route setter to be climbed by someone who could do it.... even though it was chipped.

PS I thought that some of Peters routes had been chipped or was it just aggressive cleaning? FUBAR, Rock Lobster, and how about over bolting or the dog bolt on your new project. I feel that leaves more visible scars than a chipped hold most will never touch...

[Strongbad]

I think the idea of a Barley bolt ladder is a dumb one. Routes with one bolt that you have to pull on in the middle never get climbed unless thay are part of a larger wall. I'm sure someone will respond with an exception in order to make me look like an a$% but in my limited experience ( I've been climbing about two weeks) these routes don't get done. Look at all the Barley specials in Skaha what a bunch of classics those are.

[XXXX]

I love the Internet because you can argue all day instead of getting anything done

The way I see it gluing a hold back on that broke off is no different than reinforcing it with glue in the first place or reinforcing it in other ways like the bolts that were placed in Murrin to keep a large flake attached to the wall. It is different than chipping a hold or gluing on a random rock you find in that you aren't adding anything new to the wall just using what is there.

Chipping has huge leeway in how big you make the chipped hold. Maybe you make a little one finger mono and then someone else thinks it would be more classic as a 4 finger bucket, what's to stop them from enlarging it?

As to the Barley bolt ladders not being popular - there was a lineup on Godforsaken Land last time I was up at the Squaw. I honestly don't see the difference between pulling on a chipped hold and pulling on a sling, they are both aid climbing. At least the bolt does not stop anyone from trying the original line but in the case of enhanced holds the original hold has been destroyed by enlarging and can no longer be used. Obviously this is less relevant for holes drilled into fully blank mirror smooth rock.

[Pete L.]

Here's my opinion, for what it's worth.

1)I don't care one way or the other, chip or don't chip, I don't care!

2)To the victor goes the spoils! You get there first, you get to do whatever you want. (overbolting, underbolting, chipping, glueing, poorly cleaning) Don't like it- get there before me!

3)Altering existing routes is asinine!

4)Aid bolts in the middle of a sport route-stupid! "area super un-classic"

5)I don't care about future generations! I don't care about this generation!

6)Nobody is going to work a vertical 40 foot 14c/d. It will be forgotten.

7)It's just freakin' rock! Last I checked it has no feelings.