Passing

[Lurch]

Last weekend my partner and i decided to do angel's crest on sunday... I know, bad idea right?

We were the 4th party, right behind our buddies, and the second party was really holding up the show. the leader was doing allright but the second was struggling. We ended up soloing past them after acrophobes, after asking nicely a few times since angels crack if we could pass.

Point is, what are the ethics on passing? i know Mclane says "no party is under obligation to let any other party pass", and i hate crowding a belay as much as the next guy, but i also loathe sitting behind a slow party all day.

If i have a party on my a$%, and i see them waiting excessively, then i will always let them pass as soon as the situation permits.

What do you guys think?

Mike

[Cloudraker]

Passing should be a non-issue. If there's a party on your heels hang out at the belay and let them pass. If there's a slower party in front of you ask nicely and move ahead. I've never had a problem passing or being passed. Seems like it's just common courtesy to not be a dick and allow everyone to move at their own pace.

[slopr]

careful passing on angels crest.... might want to wear some kevlar, or @ the very least be prepared to defend your honor!


http://squamishclimbing.com/squamish_cl ... gels+crest

[thebigchin]

I prefer to avoid the whole issue by either making sure I'm first on the route or there are options for switching routes higher up. If one wants to climb AC without the hassle of passing then get there *early*.

If you do come up behind someone then be prepared to bail or to climb at a reduced speed. Remember that they were there first and are probably just as annoyed as you are they they have to share their little spot of wilderness with you.

It's fair to ask (really nicely) if you can squeeze by climb ahead, but as McLean says, they're under no obligation to let you pass. If I was in their situation I'd be shaking my head at the arrogance of a party that feels that they can get up late and expect to jump ahead of anyone else that is on route.

AC is one of those climbs where the dropped gear/rock hazard is pretty low, and there is plenty of places to hang out while waiting for a faster party to leapfrog you. I'd be pretty reluctant to let anyone get above me on a fall-line multipitch route, tho.

I'll have to disagree with Cloudraker that passing is a non-issue. I'd suggest that passing is a big issue and requires a bunch of planning to avoid it where possible. There is a lot of rock around Squamish and having a backup plan should be mandatory when you are expecting to spend all day on a long route.

[Brendan]

For the last 4 or more years we've been starting late. On the rock at around 1pm at the earliest and no later than 5. Seems to work, but you have to climb fast

[Lurch]

I tried for early, but that didn't work out. Alpine start would be ideal. We finished a good hour and a half before them and that was after only passing at acrophobes. We would have been well out of the of the way and no one on their a$% but they didn't want it that way obviously.

i'm guessing that last pitch alternate is a good one when it's nearing dark

[slopr]

I prefer to avoid the whole issue by either making sure I'm first on the route or there are options for switching routes higher up. If one wants to climb AC without the hassle of passing then get there *early*.

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I'll have to disagree with Cloudraker that passing is a non-issue. I'd suggest that passing is a big issue and requires a bunch of planning to avoid it where possible. There is a lot of rock around Squamish and having a backup plan should be mandatory when you are expecting to spend all day on a long route.

So you like to get there first and plan on spending the whole day there eh? I see what is holding everyone up I don't necessarily agree that passing is an issue or needs to be avoided but it should be common knowledge that the 3 easiest full length routes on the chief (AC, butress, UE) are going to have multiple parties on them everyday in the summer, most of these parties will start before 10 and consequently there is probably a clusterf*#k on every one of these routes every single day. I think Brendan might have the right idea to head up later on and climb fast, if this is not an option for you then you will be stuck in the convoy. Playing devils advocate however it seems to be common courtesy to let a faster party pass, just like when you are driving on the highway. Do you like being the one who is holding everyone up? Drop the ego and pull over, it will make your day much more enjoyable not slowing everyone else down and you will not feel so rushed and pissed that 2 dudes are chatting up your GF @ the belay all day while u hang the rope, as a result you might even get to enjoy the climbing.

[crazymonkey]

Playing devils advocate however it seems to be common courtesy to let a faster party pass, just like when you are driving on the highway. Do you like being the one who is holding everyone up? Drop the ego and pull over, it will make your day much more enjoyable not slowing everyone else down and you will not feel so rushed and pissed that 2 dudes are chatting up your GF @ the belay all day while u hang the rope, as a result you might even get to enjoy the climbing.

COULD NOT AGREE MORE!!!!
Especially if you're a party of 3 and have a faster party of 2 right on your tail. Does having someone pass you make any less of a climber? No, It makes you smart by letting traffic flow smoothly.

[staven]

...it seems to be common courtesy to let a faster party pass, just like when you are driving on the highway. Do you like being the one who is holding everyone up? Drop the ego and pull over.

Agreed. No reason to be a dick and hold up an obviously faster party because McLane says you don't have to, or to teach them some sort of lesson. I for one will avoid a bottleneck by letting an obviously quicker party pass when safe, if it will not cause me to have to wait an excessive amount of time. If it's getting dark or I'm within a few pitches of the top, there's really no reason to pass anyway. Who cares if you don't have the responsibility to pull over, only douchebags invite conflict.

That being said, I would be less likely to let someone pass if they were anything but polite and respectful of that fact that I'm doing them a favour.