Wire Tap

[damien]

Thanks for the input harihari. If anyone else has feedback, lemme know.

Best luck finishing up your project.

[Coloradoclimber]

Hi-
I climbed all the routes on Olsen wall that I could and thought that its was worthy. GOOD JOB!

[jefffski]

I climbed all 5 pitches of wire tap last weekend. Nice climb. You did a great cleaning job.

In regard to the bolts, I believe the first two bolts on pitch 3 are not needed. A number 2 camalot fit beautifully. however, the 3rd bolt is needed, as the crack there would not take a piece easily and the move is cruxy.

btw, I enjoyed the last pitch.

some beta on thriller on the pillar: take lots of gear; although there are good rests on this long climb, there are at least 3 crux moves.

[evenstevens]

I have quite mixed emotions about this route, and although I enjoyed it and the people I took up it enjoyed it, I believe that there are some issues we can NOT overlook here.

Gear climbing is a dying breed. Can we not 'disney-ify' all climbing to fit everyone possible. If this is a '5.8' climb then why is there 10-/9+ climbing on it? Wait a minute, that makes it a 10-/9+ climb! Every single bolt on P 3 is superfluous. We can't accept the risk of a 15' clean fall? That is why camming units' lobes are independent - so they can fit funky placements. There is no doubt that the gear you place on p. 3 is bomber. The bolts next to 'Hearsay' are ridiculous as well. I am sorry, but it is NOT okay to bolt cracks in a gear climbing venue, ever.

Excessive logging in a provincial park. It is one thing to take a few scrappy trees off of a cliff, but the fact that they took down quite a number of big trees on the cliff to clear out a 1 star 5.8 chimney is a bit odd, and the number of larger trees at the base as well. I am surprised that one of the first ascensionists for this route works with the crag access groups.

Don't we think that as climbers in a zone that is next to a very popular hiking trail in a popular provincial park we should have a bit more of a stewardship effort? Don't get me wrong. I know we are in a full on battle against the rainforest here to make climbing happen. I have taken out a few trees in my time in Squamish. But let's just recognize this stuff. Especially since it seems that development is not going to be finished here anytime soon.

Multiple random hikers came up to the base of the cliff, they see trees logged to make climbing happen and they know they are in a park. Is that strange?

Just my two cents. Thanks to the climbers for putting in the time and energy to expand the climbing potential in Squamish, but that doesn't mean we can do this at all costs!

[J Mace]

Multiple random hikers came up to the base of the cliff, they see trees logged to make climbing happen and they know they are in a park. Is that strange?

You mean the big stumps when it was clear cut years ago that you see as you approach along the old logging road grade above the giant gravel pit that was Kiewits base for the last 5 years?

Not all parks are just snap shots of some period of time when we stopped logging them, they are working parks, they get trails built to keep destruction to a minimum, they get out houses to keep sh*t in one place, they get updated with parking lots, new stairs and benches and in a place like squamish that also includes new climbs.

Squamish is busy now, new climbs spread people out and let some areas of the park which are stressed to get a break and others like Wire tap to abosrb some.

Many areas of the bluffs/Chief/Squaw have been getting some trees cut and trails improved and its making for a pretty nice place with some sunshine and warmth in otherwise pretty dank areas.

Remember we fish, we hunt, we selective log and we camp in parks, cutting down trees and spreading people out is a good thing. What do you think any climb in Squamish looked like before you got to climb it? Almost every single climb was moss covered and had old cedars growing from it...I would suggest checking out super topo for a look at what things like Exasperator looked like 40 years ago.

Otherwise if you didnt like the climb then just say the climb was sh*t, but to go on about tree cutting and access society... thats just a boring tired argument that is done and finished.

[Optimally-Primed]

This is by no means a full response to Evan´s comments and questions but just a few thoughts that were part of the equation for us in making difficult decisions, worthy of consideration in forming an opinion.

WireTap is in shady place. The first thing I noticed when Damien introduced me to the (pre-cleaned) area was the moss. We agreed from the start that without a lot of traffic, the moss would return and the project would have been a mistake. We discussed whether to go all the way or to go home. In the end, we decided to go all the way. But in so doing, we kept in mind that we should sculpt the route into something that would attract more rather than less traffic. This meant making pitches inviting for climbers who were 10- lead climbers. A 15-foot fall at a crux is something that many or most 10- leaders are not comfortable taking. So we made the decision to bolt when in doubt. The feedback that we would also like to hear is from the 10- lead climber.

In bolting, we did so with concern of going too far, an awareness that there is such a thing as too much. We remain open to dialog and to the possibility of revisiting the route´s protection.

Ultimately, though, I feel that we as the developers reserve the final say on how this climb presents. This is an entirely new climb in an entirely new area. Just as we respect the right of FAists to create bold climbs, we ask for the same opportunity to develop less bold climbs.

-OP

[jefffski]

I'm always amazed at people who complain about climbs--too bold, too many bolts, too clean, too dirty. I thank route developers for giving more choices about where to climb and only curse the one who put the good holds out of arms reach. Mother nature can be a real b%$ch, but you guys are great.

[Dru]

. A 15-foot fall at a crux is something that many or most 10- leaders are not comfortable taking.

I agree with most of what you just said but this sentence right here is hooey unless you mean gym climbers? A 15 foot fall is possible from just about anywhere on a climb if you account for rope stretch unless you have things sewn up with gear at your waist and placing next piece over your head. If you watch how people climb the average 10- trad route in Squamish, it isn't by sewing it up.

[evenstevens]

Well, lots of great points being made, but I tell you, we have to remember that the rock is a finite resource. 30 years ago the average climber couldn't walk up to a cliff and climb the 5.8-5.10 routes that we can today; ropes, gear, rubber and climbers have improved every year. Who is to say that in another 30 years it will be that much better making a climb like wiretap that much easier to climb? Basically we are robbing the future generations of the natural challenge of the rock.

I may get pegged as an 'elitist' but you know what, no matter what level you are at, there are always climbs to strive for, that is the beauty of climbing. I think what has happened with wiretap is that the first ascensionists have brought the rock down to their level, or the level of the masses. I know when I climb, I strive to bring myself up to the level of the rock. Maybe we should chip a hold or two on Wiretap to make it the multi-pitch 5.8-5.9 that we really need for the masses, we are only one step away from that! Otherwise I vote we put one more bolt on the 3rd pitch and put one in on the second pitch, that way we can leave the rack at the first anchor and really see what the French have known in the Verdon for years! And I just got back from there, it is so fun climbing with just a set of quickdraws!

Regardless, the other half of the climbing community who disagrees with this style of new routing doesn't want to bother speaking up I guess, I just hear lots of grumbling at parties.

And every lead climber should be comfortable taking a 15 foot fall. that is par for the course!!!!!

[mcfly]

Thanks to all the people volunteering their time and money (and sweat & blood) to put up good new climbs. I have climbed this route and a few other new routes so far this year and have enjoyed every new pitch. If you don't like the way a crag has been developed then develop your own route (or crag!) and bolt the F*ck out of it or run the F*ck out of it. Time will tell if your effort was worth it.

And... we live in a temperate rainforest. Cutting trees and brush is mandatory if a climb is to exist for more than a few years. Good job developing your crag - I would've cut down or pruned a few more trees!

[Lurch]

I agree entirely with mcfly, and jeremy. If you bother to put in the time and effort to clean something then you have a right to set it up however you like.

[gearheart]

I climbed wiretap last week and thought that the bolts on the 3rd pitch were unnecessary as there is good gear available throughout.
I thought the FA's requested feedback, and if so, my personal view is that all of the protection bolts on that pitch should be removed, and if not all, then at least minimized (maybe remove highest and lowest bolt and tell people it takes gear to camalot #4?). I think that the route will be better for it.
The route otherwise was enjoyable and linking p. 1 & 2 and 3 & 4 is the way to go, unless you want to swap those leads to give the other leader the non-crux pitches (as we did and it works fine).
I was surprised at how quickly the area dries as it is less sheltered and way windier back there than I would have guessed.
Todd

[damien]

Thanks for the feedback. I am stoked at how fast it dries with that updraft. Payback for all the scrubbings which blew up my nose and into my eyes!

[damien]

What are peoples thoughts on P4? I watched someone climb that pitch the other day and midpitch they climbed sort of up and wide left (out of the little alcove) rather than rightwards toward the forth bolt. I think up left is technically much harder.

[Optimally-Primed]

Thanks for the feedback. Damien and I plan to get together in a few weeks, climb the route again, think, talk, and reconsider the protection. The points noted in this discussion have been helpful to us in hearing some of the various different perspectives in the community and will all be considered carefully in our final decisions. We appreciate all the thoughtful input.

Jeremy