Need advice on rock quality for potential new crag

[Marty]

I'm toying with the idea of developing a new crag between Vancouver and Squamish (it would give me something to do this fall when the rains come). I've found a really good looking cliff (with a good looking roof), but am unsure of the overall rock quality. Does anyone here have experience with judging rock quality and would want to go on a quick walk on a weekend sometime in the next month?

Thanks,
Marty

[harihari]

I would think of the following

a) it needs to have a bunch of 5.7 to 5.10 routes to maintain traffic.
b) it should face south ideally
c) Is there parking? how far away is it?
d_ if there's crazy h8ighway noise people won't liek it

As for rock quality, take a couple of old ropes, hike to the top, and rap off some trees. Bring a crowbar and beat the sh*t out of the rock in various places and see what it does.

I'm toying with the idea of developing a new crag between Vancouver and Squamish (it would give me something to do this fall when the rains come). I've found a really good looking cliff (with a good looking roof), but am unsure of the overall rock quality. Does anyone here have experience with judging rock quality and would want to go on a quick walk on a weekend sometime in the next month?

Thanks,
Marty

[sandBag]

I'd agree with harihari as I have spent considerable time looking and developing crags and sometimes it been a waste. either the cliff is too far to hike to, or not enough routes have regular traffic.

Also, parking is a big issue along highway 99, unless parking is sufficient, it might be more work for little return. Not to discourage you but I have spent time along this stretch of highway and left several ok routes on good rock but due to the parking and 30+ min hike I have not been back for 5 years.

I am currently busy in Lynn Valley and have no desire to scoop the crag but I'd have a look and give my 2 cents. More route the happier I am.

cheers,
sandbag

[pinner]

Hey Marty, Kurt's out of work and has all kinds of time on his hands for the moment...

[Brendan]

If it looks similar to the Forgotten Wall then I'd personally leave it alone

[harihari]

If it looks similar to the Forgotten Wall then I'd personally leave it alone

No, no-- dig out all of the gear placements, then put bolts right beside them.

[dakine]

I can't offer much in regard to rock quality but if you are setting sport routes a range of grades is optimal mid 10's to 13's. There are plenty of areas with soft routes for new climbers.
As a climber I'd only be interested in a wall with several 12- to 12+

[pinner]

Wow, I will deifinitely disagree with Dakine. By far most of the sport climbs in the S2S corridor are 11 and up. Ideally, a range from 5.7 to 12 can keep things interesting for everybody and their girl/boyfriends, but there are very few areas around with easy sport leading for the newer climber.

how many times have you climbed every route at Foundation wall when out with newbs? Always the same place - thank god for the Lounge!

[Dru]

If it's granite in the Highway 99 corridor you generally don't have to worry about rock quality.

If it is the Gambier Formation that outcrops south of Porteau as far south as Lions Bay or so, you have a mix of sedimentary and metamorphic rock. Some is quite solid and some is really crappy.

Rather than just blindly smashing away with a crowbar to check rock quality, try this:

- eyeball it from the base. Are there obvious hanging flakes, fresh rockfall scars, or fresh rocks at the base that have fallen off the top?

- check out the top. Is it a clean top of cliff or is it covered with a deep mix of loose boulders and dirt?

- clean a bit at the base, then boulder around at the base and see if you snap off holds or the rock seems sound

- find a natural gear placement, put some gear in and bounce test it. Does the placement crumble, or hold?

- take a Black Diamond Talon, hook a hookable feature and bounce-test it. Does the feature break?

After doing all this you should have some idea of if the rock is any good.

[dakine]

pinner Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:30 am
Wow, I will deifinitely disagree with Dakine. By far most of the sport climbs in the S2S corridor are 11 and up. Ideally, a range from 5.7 to 12 can keep things interesting for everybody and their girl/boyfriends, but there are very few areas around with easy sport leading for the newer climber.

how many times have you climbed every route at Foundation wall when out with newbs? Always the same place - thank god for the Lounge!

Check has multiple soft routes at the whiskey jack, Crest, Circus, and by Charlotte's web.. not to mention Sully's wall, the lounge and Rouges.

Putting another wall of 5.7 to 5.9 sport routes would be a waste of time and money IMHO. To see a lot of traffic you need a range of routes to draw people in...

[JesseCR]

I dont have much knowledge for developing areas, however I would be interested in helping cleaning the routes, base and etc. I have basic gear and have a couple days off every week.

[Marty]

dakine: I'm with pinner on this one... I haven't been climbing for too too long, and Squamish was definitely a tough place to learn the sport. More easier routes are definitely needed!

Dru: Thanks for the advice, I'll do that next time I'm out there.

JesseCR: I'll send you a PM next time I head out there. Are you in Squamish or Van?

It's hard to justify crawling around in the bush to check out this crag while the weather is holding up. I'll be heading up there again to check out the cliff the next time the weather turns. Before heading out I'll post up another message and anyone that's interested could join me.

Cheers,
Marty