Genesis Wall - Murrin Park
hi pinner
i think that you have me confused with dick. in the early 60s dick was an amazing 8 feet tall, and weighed at least 450 pounds. this was pre-metric of course. he was the GIANT of the coast range. i hear that today he has returned to a more normal physical stature, but his reputation is as big as ever.
dick has a special connection to squamish. i know, i'm getting way off thread here. his undated [1965?] blue guide to the coast range has a section which contains the first printed descriptions for climbs at squamish. after baldwin's version, and then dick's, glenn w's green guide was technically the third guide to squamish, but also the first printed version which dealt exclusively with squamish. anyone really care, besides anders and me?
cheers, hamish.
i think that you have me confused with dick. in the early 60s dick was an amazing 8 feet tall, and weighed at least 450 pounds. this was pre-metric of course. he was the GIANT of the coast range. i hear that today he has returned to a more normal physical stature, but his reputation is as big as ever.
dick has a special connection to squamish. i know, i'm getting way off thread here. his undated [1965?] blue guide to the coast range has a section which contains the first printed descriptions for climbs at squamish. after baldwin's version, and then dick's, glenn w's green guide was technically the third guide to squamish, but also the first printed version which dealt exclusively with squamish. anyone really care, besides anders and me?
cheers, hamish.
hello drew
way off thread again. sorry, but i have to disagree with you on this idea that the FFA party has some right to re-name a route. while it may have occured on occasion at squamish in the past, i do not see it as an accepted practice here or elsewhere. FYI the names papoose one and two were interim names given by baldwin, to be used until he found out the correct names from beckey and cooper. the name pin-up [a clever name for a mostly aid route] first appeared in dick culbert's blue guide, after he learned it from either the CAJ or the AAJ, and was NOT changed by the FFA party. anders has already pointed out that the name sentry box was not changed by the FFA party either.
i also have to disagree that this is a common practice in britain and the US. the use of aid in britain is generally frowned upon, and aid/mixed routes are few and far between. the number of these routes being free-climbed would also be correspondingly low, and the number being re-named would surely be fewer still. as for the states, many of the big wall routes on el cap have now gone free, but i am not aware of any being re-named. who would dare to propose such a thing? climbers like lynn hill are way too modest. if it is not accepted in the valley, why would we condone it at squamish? imho this re-naming of climbs should be neither recognized nor encouraged.
cheers, hamish.
way off thread again. sorry, but i have to disagree with you on this idea that the FFA party has some right to re-name a route. while it may have occured on occasion at squamish in the past, i do not see it as an accepted practice here or elsewhere. FYI the names papoose one and two were interim names given by baldwin, to be used until he found out the correct names from beckey and cooper. the name pin-up [a clever name for a mostly aid route] first appeared in dick culbert's blue guide, after he learned it from either the CAJ or the AAJ, and was NOT changed by the FFA party. anders has already pointed out that the name sentry box was not changed by the FFA party either.
i also have to disagree that this is a common practice in britain and the US. the use of aid in britain is generally frowned upon, and aid/mixed routes are few and far between. the number of these routes being free-climbed would also be correspondingly low, and the number being re-named would surely be fewer still. as for the states, many of the big wall routes on el cap have now gone free, but i am not aware of any being re-named. who would dare to propose such a thing? climbers like lynn hill are way too modest. if it is not accepted in the valley, why would we condone it at squamish? imho this re-naming of climbs should be neither recognized nor encouraged.
cheers, hamish.
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Anders Ourom
- Senior Member
- Posts: 328
- Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 10:38 am
Astroman may be an exception that proves the rule - one of the few if only routes in Yosemite that has an accepted, different name when done free than when done as an aid climb. (Not sure what they call it when people do it mostly free with bits of aid...) But many who do Astroman are still careful to note that it's on the East Face of Washington Column.
My memory (Commodore 64 level) doesn't recall any other occasions of outright route renaming in Yosemite, after an FFA or otherwise. "Cleaning" isn't as common there, and it's a place with more sense of history, and overall much more activity, which make a difference.
University Wall. First done in 1966, including lower bushy corners that are now rarely climbed. Freed in 1982, with significant variations on the second and fifth pitches. Still called University Wall - a well established climb, and even now sometimes aided. Second and fifth pitches freed by the original aid line, in 1988. Peter called them "The Shadow". It appears that he meant that those two pitches, if done free, should be called The Shadow - although it's rather confusing. Most still seem to just say they're doing University Wall, and the careful note exactly which version they're doing. Not many have done the whole thing free, but I suspect most of them say they've done "University Wall", rather than "The Shadow".
Naming is a highly symbolic and somewhat territorial behaviour, and fairly significant. Particularly in the case of those who do a first ascent, or a first free ascent, both of which are likely to require some commitment and effort. That said, my take on it is the same old (boring Anders lecture to follow):
1. It's good manners and good sense to ask those who did a first ascent (if possible) before suggesting it should be renamed - even if it was done decades ago, was never repeated, and it took dynamite and a D-12 to make it climbable.
2. It's very good sense to discuss the idea in the community, and see what people think of the idea.
3. It's essential that guidebook writers and historians get it correct.
In other words, a little thought and discussion before acting is desirable - notwithstanding that as climbers we're somewhat action-oriented, and there's no final decision-making authority but community consensus.
At one time, Crap Crags was often climbed. It was a relatively moderate way to the top of the Chief, and involved lots of adventure. Like the other gullies, perhaps more of a 'mountain' climb than a 'rock' climb, but fun nonetheless. A classic Squamish climb, requiring the use of trees for both anchors and progess. (Know your trees! Cedar = good.)
Pinner will have difficulty doing BBB, given that "OSDD" follows much the same line. Same route, cleaner, many more bolts, more "accessible". Not sure how many ever did BBB, but
I'm wrestling with these issues in terms of what to do with Slab Alley - if anything. My solution is thought and research and discussion, and respect for the history of the route, and the memory of Jim Baldwin and Tony Cousins. I was up there yesterday, and once again greatly impressed by what they did in 1961, in mountain boots.
Speaking of University Wall, is someone going to remove the "ledge" that is hanging at the base of the big corner, before it gets trashed by winter storms? Might make a fun trundle, if you're careful.
Trivia: What well-known Canadian climber died on the East Face of Washington Column. (Drew not eligible to enter.)
My memory (Commodore 64 level) doesn't recall any other occasions of outright route renaming in Yosemite, after an FFA or otherwise. "Cleaning" isn't as common there, and it's a place with more sense of history, and overall much more activity, which make a difference.
University Wall. First done in 1966, including lower bushy corners that are now rarely climbed. Freed in 1982, with significant variations on the second and fifth pitches. Still called University Wall - a well established climb, and even now sometimes aided. Second and fifth pitches freed by the original aid line, in 1988. Peter called them "The Shadow". It appears that he meant that those two pitches, if done free, should be called The Shadow - although it's rather confusing. Most still seem to just say they're doing University Wall, and the careful note exactly which version they're doing. Not many have done the whole thing free, but I suspect most of them say they've done "University Wall", rather than "The Shadow".
Naming is a highly symbolic and somewhat territorial behaviour, and fairly significant. Particularly in the case of those who do a first ascent, or a first free ascent, both of which are likely to require some commitment and effort. That said, my take on it is the same old (boring Anders lecture to follow):
1. It's good manners and good sense to ask those who did a first ascent (if possible) before suggesting it should be renamed - even if it was done decades ago, was never repeated, and it took dynamite and a D-12 to make it climbable.
2. It's very good sense to discuss the idea in the community, and see what people think of the idea.
3. It's essential that guidebook writers and historians get it correct.
In other words, a little thought and discussion before acting is desirable - notwithstanding that as climbers we're somewhat action-oriented, and there's no final decision-making authority but community consensus.
At one time, Crap Crags was often climbed. It was a relatively moderate way to the top of the Chief, and involved lots of adventure. Like the other gullies, perhaps more of a 'mountain' climb than a 'rock' climb, but fun nonetheless. A classic Squamish climb, requiring the use of trees for both anchors and progess. (Know your trees! Cedar = good.)
Pinner will have difficulty doing BBB, given that "OSDD" follows much the same line. Same route, cleaner, many more bolts, more "accessible". Not sure how many ever did BBB, but
I'm wrestling with these issues in terms of what to do with Slab Alley - if anything. My solution is thought and research and discussion, and respect for the history of the route, and the memory of Jim Baldwin and Tony Cousins. I was up there yesterday, and once again greatly impressed by what they did in 1961, in mountain boots.
Speaking of University Wall, is someone going to remove the "ledge" that is hanging at the base of the big corner, before it gets trashed by winter storms? Might make a fun trundle, if you're careful.
Trivia: What well-known Canadian climber died on the East Face of Washington Column. (Drew not eligible to enter.)
hey drew
point taken. astroman is an example of a valley climb which was re-named! however, remember that:
"one swallow doth not a summer make."
E. Presley, 'Heartbreak Hotel'.
i might be persuaded to agree that rock climbs which have boring geographic names such as 'the east face of this', or 'the south face of that' deserve something more imaginative. geographic names are fine in the alpine, but seem a little lame at the crags. although the column is hardly a crag.
to take this evolution of climbing nomenclature one step further, is the climber who makes the first free solo ascent then entitled to add a third name to the mix? if not, why not? nothing personal here drew, just my two bits.
meanwhile, back in murrin park...... HELP STAMP OUT THREAD DRIFT. hamish.
point taken. astroman is an example of a valley climb which was re-named! however, remember that:
"one swallow doth not a summer make."
E. Presley, 'Heartbreak Hotel'.
i might be persuaded to agree that rock climbs which have boring geographic names such as 'the east face of this', or 'the south face of that' deserve something more imaginative. geographic names are fine in the alpine, but seem a little lame at the crags. although the column is hardly a crag.
to take this evolution of climbing nomenclature one step further, is the climber who makes the first free solo ascent then entitled to add a third name to the mix? if not, why not? nothing personal here drew, just my two bits.
meanwhile, back in murrin park...... HELP STAMP OUT THREAD DRIFT. hamish.
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bradley3297
- Senior Member
- Posts: 233
- Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:51 am
- Location: squamish
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Optimally-Primed
- Senior Member
- Posts: 350
- Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:04 am
Climbed Genesis and Genicide on Saturday. Genesis without the bolt does have good pro below the crux (small nut & black alien/00 metolius). But with that ledge there, it's a no-fall zone for sure. I'd like to resolve this matter about the bolt. But I still don't know who chopped it.
Will the person who chopped the bolt on Genesis please identify yourself? I'd like to discuss this matter in person.
And for some eye candy... Mandy at the stellar crux of Genecide.
Man! I love seeing that much chalk on routes that I cleaned!
Will the person who chopped the bolt on Genesis please identify yourself? I'd like to discuss this matter in person.
And for some eye candy... Mandy at the stellar crux of Genecide.
Man! I love seeing that much chalk on routes that I cleaned!
When I went up there with Anders a few months ago, all I saw was a complete lack of respect. A lack of respect for all the probably hundreds of climbers before you, a lack of respect for the rock and a lack of respect for the park and forest. I think I read somewhere that cutting down trees is somehow bad in BC parks! I didn't chop the bolt but pretty glad it's gone.
p.s the "routes" to the left of Genesis were top roped years ago by Larry Ostrander. I think that we can post humorously (sic) call then Proportionally Permed!
Simon
p.s the "routes" to the left of Genesis were top roped years ago by Larry Ostrander. I think that we can post humorously (sic) call then Proportionally Permed!
Simon
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Optimally-Primed
- Senior Member
- Posts: 350
- Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:04 am
In light of all the changes that have taken place at Genesis since I posted the original topo, I've updated the topo.
DOWNLOAD THE UPDATED TOPO
DOWNLOAD THE UPDATED TOPO
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Optimally-Primed
- Senior Member
- Posts: 350
- Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:04 am
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bradley3297
- Senior Member
- Posts: 233
- Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:51 am
- Location: squamish
Nice work. ive been to genesis before and after the cleaning and you made a crag barely worthy of a existence into a nice crag with multiple worthwhile lines. the whole area was on the verge of becoming part of the damn forest. Noone gave a damn about genesis before it was cleaned. now its a big deal it seems. Positive contribution imo.
Bradley
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