newly fixed draws at Chek

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ras
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newly fixed draws at Chek

Post by ras » Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:35 pm

Was fixing draws on Rug Muncher and Neutered Bovine discussed on the forum? Or fixing, in general?

I searched, but didn't see anything.

Those climbs are certainly easier with the draws pre-hung, but is that good?

I understand fixed draws on severely overhanging routes, where it can be pretty hard to clean them while lowering or rapping, but these are easy to clean, and if you climb a 10a you can hang draws on Munchers.

My gf says I'm crazy, that careing about whether its a valid ascent with the draws pre-hung is stupid, and that it makes it safer to try the routes and bail off. She's usually right, so "thanks" to whoever paid for all that gear. :-)

Still, I gave a few tries at Neutered Bovine last year, could never get it the first time, but could my second time with the draws left in, and was looking forward to nailing it this spring, and it just didn't feel the same when I did and it felt easy.

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Post by dakine » Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:13 pm

easy solution clip your draws into the fixed ones...
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meingh
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Post by meingh » Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:14 am

It's an interesting debate. The primary reason things were fixed in Check is for quicker turnover. It gets so busy in the summer and that no one wants to wait for someone to go back up and clean there draws off of something or fight for an hour to get to the top of something they shouldn't be on.

The downside is that people will be more likely to get on something they would normally shy away from if it was not pre-drawed.

So far it seems to be working, and you can always clip your own draws into the hangers if you really wanted to :)

ras
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Post by ras » Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:03 am

meingh wrote:It's an interesting debate. The primary reason things were fixed in Check is for quicker turnover. It gets so busy in the summer and that no one wants to wait for someone to go back up and clean there draws off of something or fight for an hour to get to the top of something they shouldn't be on.
OK, I can see that. It was pretty quiet Monday :-0, but it's not called the "Circus" for nothing!
So far it seems to be working, and you can always clip your own draws into the hangers if you really wanted to :)
Or just do one of the many other routes...

With a draw and a quicklink through the same hanger, unless there's enough space for the draw to swing freely, I think there's a chance of the biner binding during a fall, and cracking the hanger open.

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Post by dakine » Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:03 am

"I think there's a chance of the biner binding during a fall, and cracking the hanger open."

umm our draws are aluminum they are going to fail long before the stainless steel hanger.
you can always clip your draw into the fixed draw (safer) rather than the hanger.

IMO from the comments you've posted on the forum i'm surprised you are not climbing Trad.

Almost no fixed gear.

Seldom any ticking on the harder routes.

The only thing that wouldn't set well is the heavy deforestation / environmental impact of the route development.





:D [/quote]
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ras
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Post by ras » Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:44 pm

dakine wrote: umm our draws are aluminum they are going to fail long before the stainless steel hanger.
That'd still leave me postholed into the ground. I can't recall the accident report I read where a biner jammed between the bolt head and the hanger, and levered the hanger off the wall.

And anyhow, there's no shortage of climbs around that are hard for me, at that point, I'd just feel stupid... as trad climbers understand well, otherwise they would bolt the split pillar, and people who wanted to place cams besides the bolts, could. :-)

[quote ="dakine"]
IMO from the comments you've posted on the forum i'm surprised you are not climbing Trad.
[/quote]

In the classic words of Howie Richardson's Skaha guide, I have a "mortal fear of death".

Everybodys idea of where challenging turns to stupid is different, from top-roping to free soloing, I respect that, but it's not all for me.

The only trad I've done is multipitch, and it wasn't as much fun as Potrero Chico, or bolted cracks at the Owen River Gorge.

I like the physical/acrobatic movement over rock, continuous problem-solving under stress, and looking up at some face and wondering "wow, could I climb that?", not knowing, and then trying.

I'm interested in pushing my movement ability, not my gear placing ability, and the trad climbers I know personally climb harder on fixed gear (bolts) than the stuff they hand place... so how hard they climb is being limited by the element of climbing that least interests me.

I never saw a full accident report on that guy who died in the bluffs last year, just that he was a sport climber, learning to place gear, and took a practice fall, but change the name, and it could have been me.

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Post by Pete L. » Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:24 pm

There's another good reason for fixed draws at Chek that I don't think I notice mentioned above.
Chek's the only half decent crag to go to in Squamish when it's raining but some of the routes still get wet up high. With draws fixed it makes it that much easier to head up a route without worrying about having to finish it if the top is wet.

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Post by pinner » Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:27 am

ras wrote: I like the physical/acrobatic movement over rock, continuous problem-solving under stress, and looking up at some face and wondering "wow, could I climb that?", not knowing, and then trying.

I'm interested in pushing my movement ability, not my gear placing ability, and the trad climbers I know personally climb harder on fixed gear (bolts) than the stuff they hand place... so how hard they climb is being limited by the element of climbing that least interests me.

I never saw a full accident report on that guy who died in the bluffs last year, just that he was a sport climber, learning to place gear, and took a practice fall, but change the name, and it could have been me.
Not trying to convert you here, but "continuous problem solving under stress" is the perfect description of trying to fiddle in gear as your Elvis-leg wrosens and slimy fingers ooze further out of your insecure jam, knowing that you've used the last piece of gear of the right size and can't see any pockets or constrictions for the next 8 m...

And I too climb harder on sport, as placing gear takes more time, and thus taxes my endurance, but I am much more physically worked after a 10a on gear than a 10d on bolts.

And as for the sad tale in the Bluffs last year, it could have easily been prevented with a little more forethought... a helmet, for instance, or a top-rope when jumping onto gear to test if it will hold you. Hopefully this will never happen again in our community (or elsewhere!)


...But where the ethics allow, I have gladly clipped crack-bolts too!

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