The Milk Road, a blog

[Hip]

I was in the boulders this week and observed the same scene that mike c observed a few weeks back. I checked every entrance to the forest and found only one sign on the ground at the titanic boulder entrance.

No rain has fallen all week.

I don’t get the feeling it was raining when Mike C was in the forest either.

I’m afraid you have shown an enormous lack of concern for public safety.

If you have any concerns, questions, or comments please, don’t hesitate to give me a call. I’d rather that then an aggressive comment written on the internet. 250. 318. 9548.

[Optimally-Primed]

Hip, that's funny! In one sentence you say

"I’m afraid you have shown an enormous lack of concern for public safety."

and then 2 sentences later,

"I’d rather that [contact me directly] then an aggressive comment written on the internet."

I take your double standard to be a kind of satirical stab at Mike C.'s asinine comment.

Ha Ha.

For anyone else who would like to take a strip off me, hear this: I will no longer respond to these sorts of offhanded comments posted online. Rant like an angry teen if you will. But if you are actually concerned with public safety and positive action, then contact me directly and handle these matters like an adult.

[Hip]

Any reasonable person would agree that trundling any size rock off a 1000 foot cliff without the right precautionary measures is showing a lack of concern for public safety... Wouldn’t you agree?

I would like to contact you but you have not left any contact info. My number hasn’t changed since yesterday so give me a call when you’re free.

I do have class from 6-9 tonight. Tuesday/Thursday I get out by 2:30 and Wednesday/Friday I’m done at 12:30.

[Mike C.]

OP,

You're lying. Sorry to say it. I checked each entrance that day and there was only one sign. Also, it was a blue bird day, so spare us the delusional bullsh*t about rain. Being a selfish route developer is going to have some ups and downs, but when you finally kill a boulderer or a tourist its going to bite you in the a$% and everyone else who wants to enjoy the park.

Also, I was in the forest the same day as Hip was and I again checked every entrance into the boulders and you only had the one sign(sitting on the ground I might add - maybe somewhere more visible next time, eh?). So, get your F%$#$&^ sh*t together, dude. So far you seem to suck pretty hard at the whole safety thing. Try a bit harder next time and lay off the lying.

Mike

[Mike C.]

And weekday or not its a park, dude. I've been a developer in Squamish for years and know most of the usual suspects around town clean routes and almost all of them stick to cleaning on rainy days. And I didn't follow each trail up to the base of the wall, but if you've ever bothered to spend any time in the boulders you would know that hapless tourists wander in trying to find the base of the wall ALL THE TIME. And most of them have no idea how to stay on trail, so even if you do have signs at the base of the wall on trail it doesn't mean that some idiot who's off trail is going to see it before its too late.

[squamish climber]

As someone who is following this thread but who has not been up to see the progress on Milk Road or the measures taken to tape off the area it seems to me that there could be some confusion here.

Jeremy says he was cleaning on a rainy day and blocked off the area with six signs on the approach trails and placed caution flagging tape. I've read many of Jeremy's posts and consider them to be straight up, truthful and accurate even when they touch on controversial issues. It also seems to me that Jeremy takes his safety and the safety of others very seriously.

Which leads me to ask, could you be confusing Jeremy with someone else. It's possible there was another party cleaning on the Chief on a day that Jeremy was not there.

[Aaron]

Which leads me to ask, could you be confusing Jeremy with someone else. It's possible there was another party cleaning on the Chief on a day that Jeremy was not there.

No way in Hell! Jeremy is the only route developer who routinely posts his efforts on SquamishClimbing.com, therefore Jeremy MUST be the only route developer in Squamish.



Could you imagine the conversation if Robin Barely posted anything....

[J Mace]

Could you imagine the conversation if Robin Barely posted anything....

Yup, they would all follow Mike C's guide line cause thats how its done

1) Remind readers of the risks inherent to climbing.
2) Offer personal anecdotes related to the incident.
3) Speculate rampantly based on the minimum amount of information available.
4) Criticize them and their partner(s) for the bad decisions they must have made.
5) Describe what you would have done in the same situation
6) Name drop so people know to listen to you
7) Include your resume

[Hip]

The person I saw last week was on the route Milk Road. I just double checked with the picture on his website and it matches up perfectly except for the brown streak that now marks the cliff. Was it someone else cleaning the route?

About the rain and the signs, I checked every entrance to the forest and found 1 sign lying on the ground at the entrance to the titanic boulders. There was no flagging tape to be found and nothing near the base of freeway.

About the rain, it sure didn’t rain last week but he didn’t say it was raining when I was there. I don’t get the feeling it was raining when Mike was there either. If he’s lying about his signage what’s stopping him from lying about the weather?

[Aaron]

If he’s lying about his signage what’s stopping him from lying about the weather?

Word of advice. Tinfoil hats make poor climbing helmets.

[5.4 Slayer]

Word of advice. Tinfoil hats make poor climbing helmets.[/quote]

Yeah but it stops the aliens from reading our minds...right?

[mcfly]

OP, Thanks for all your hard work developing new routes.
In case you envirofascist psuedobuddhists didn't notice - we live in a temperate rainforest where moss, shrubs and trees grow like weeds even on a vertical rock wall. Look at photos of the Chief over the last 50 years and you will see how the vegetation is encroaching every year. If no vegetation removal is permitted, there will eventually be less climbs then climbers.
Jsmith, you come across as a real jerkoff in this thread.

[Optimally-Primed]

I appreciate everyone's interest in what I'm doing. But this thread is becoming destructive and I ask that the conversation end.

First, JSmith (Jeremy Smith) along with a representative of SAS and I met in person to discuss the matter in the fall. These face-to-face conversations are the way to resolve these issues, not over forums. We had a productive discussion and reached consensus on all matters. I respect Mr. Smith and appreciate all his service to the Squamish community, both on the rock, and through SAS and CrAG.

Second, Mike C. and Hip have accused me of unsafe practices, both in terms of the flagging/signage and weather. Hip has left me with an ultimatum that if I don't respond to him calling me a liar, he'll tell on me to BC Parks. I am opting to take the high road here and not respond to these unfortunate remarks.

At this time, BC Parks has no standards with regards to risk management during route cleaning. So whether or not it was raining and whether or not I had 1, 6, or 16 signs on the ground are immaterial to Parks at this time. The Climbers Advisory Group (CrAG), an arm of SAS, is meeting repeatedly with BC Parks to address this matter (I sit on the CrAG). In the interim, CASBC (of which I am Vice President) issued a request that route cleaners flag and sign the base of their projects during cleaning (I co-authored the email wording). SAS followed suit with a similar message. I maintain that my actions were consistent with this standard and have seen no evidence to the contrary. Applicable evidence would be something like a description and photos of a trail that someone could follow to the danger zone, without passing flagging tape and a caution sign. I submit that no such trail exists when I'm cleaning

But I'm not defending myself here. This is not a court. This is not a trial. There exists no applicable law other than the normal laws of the land that govern Canada and BC. The process of developing a strategy for managing this issue within Squamish area parks is well underway. The discussion on this forum, however, is not helping the process along. Rather, it's just creating unnecessary tension and divisiveness in the community.

This is my final word on this thread.

[slopr]

This is my final word on this thread.

Hopefully you'll pipe up again when the route is complete! This whole story has been way too interesting to not have a conclusion that ends in a sweet new multi pitch!! Thanks for all of your hard work

[pinner]

(I sit on the CrAG).

I do too! When belaying...

just easing the tension baby, just easing the tension...

Thanks for all the hard work as always Jer, and the well-spoken, consistent, and well-documented transcriptions of your efforts