Kids Zone: Call to Diggers

[Optimally-Primed]

Last year, I began developing a small, child friendly crag called "Kids Zone" at the far right side of Neat and Cool (wrapping around to the south face). My career took priority over finishing it. This is a call to anyone out there who wants to invest a small amount of time and effort to create what could be a community asset.

Will it become as asset? As always, it's impossible to tell in advance. I honestly didn't know how people would react to Skywalker while developing it. Working against it is that it's a tiny crag. Maybe 8m high. It's also low angle. The climbing is 4th class to 5.4. However, at the age of 3, that might be a great place to start. A quick glance around town led me to the impression that demand for this sort of crag is high and climbing.

The crag has 4 top rope anchors installed. Is anyone interested in taking on even a single line and giving it a scrub?

[slhughes]

it's a law suit waiting to happen. advertising it as a 'kids zone' implies playground safety standards. the style of 'climbs' there are unsuitable for small kids because they are not flat open slabs, rather they are more like vague aretes and buttresses. little kids have a tendency to grab the rope, go limp and roll- which is fine on the sugarloaf, but on this poxy little 'crag' will likely end up with a bruised and wailing kid after he or she tipped off and rolled off the feature. and don't even suggest 'directionals'. furthermore, it's patronizing to the kids to take them to such a shitty venue. climbing is a tough sell to most small kids and if a parent hopes to snag the kid's interest, the choice of venue goes along way to building a positive experience. there are plenty of good spots for kids in squamish, this 'kids zone' (i'm groaning) is not one of them. by all means, continue developing this piece of sh*t, but drop the 'kids zone' tag. stewart

[Kyle]

The nursery is far better for kids. It's a little far for little ones, though It will get their legs in good shape for those slabs on the apron if they're gonna eventually step up to that.

[jred]

I have to say I thought this "crag" looked like garbage the second I saw it. Having taught and coached climbing to kids for a decade I can quite honestly say that there would be no way in hell I would take any kid to such a poor venue.

[greenerj]

I would have to agree, this area is best left alone to grow over with vegetation. It would be a complete waste of time, there are plenty of child friendly routes in the Bluffs.

[NateDoggOG]

I bouldered a couple lines there when I had some down time one evening. If folks want to pad the base and treat it as a highball, then that's cool, but I don't think they are worth putting anchors in and setting ropes up on.
Kids are pretty fearless, especially when they are the age this area is designated for. I know that when I was 5 or 6, if someone had set a rope up on a 20 foot rock when there are all these 60-80 footers around, I'd have been pretty disappointed. They want to climb high, and the higher the better.
I'd say leave it as it is, and if it's climbed, awesome, and if it fades back into the greenery, it's not going to be missed. It's the same as any other crag - quality over quantity.

Edit: I believe that slhughes post, while a little harsh, is quite on point.

[dkelly]

we took the kids and it quickly became obvious that the low angle terrain leading to the 5 meter of climbing presented a danger to kids. It was too easy for them to wander into dangerous fall territory when hanging out waiting to climb.

We also observed some "tourists" who looked at the sign and started playing on the crag with no ropes or idea of what they were getting themselves into. I would recommend the sign comes down and the area is left to go back to nature.

Thanks for the the ideas and effort.

[PJH]

I agree with the above comments. I stopped by this area when I took my 2 year old out for his first day climbing this season. What kids need is a flat safe area to play while waiting, relatively steep terrain to make lowering possible, obvious positive holds, and easy top-rope access. This kids area has none of those attributes. I ended up at the sugarloaf, which was perfect.

Thanks for the efforts - you win some (eg. skywalker), lose others. Let's let this one disappear.

[Tegan]

Agreed there is no way I would take my 2.5 yr old there. The terrain itself poses a huge hazard for a wandering toddler..never mind the crappy rock itself. Although I do think there needs to be a short, well featured, flat bottom (with no nearby drop offs) for the new ones starting out. Under 5yrs climbing area. As well as a great beginner lead wall for kids 11 and under. My partner and I have been searching for one. Hopefully we will find it.

[squamish climber]

I think the feedback here may have been a little harsh and off the cuff. In my view the Kids Zone offers potential for families to take their kids climbing and enhances Smoke Bluffs as a climbing park. My kids scrambled there earlier this summer and found a fun traverse and then an easy, blocky way up the side of a boulder. I looked at some of the other boulder problems which were slabby and above V1 - so not suitable for kids just learning.

This area is close to the parking lot and the south neighbourhood entrance, it's also close to the kid friendly climbs at the north-end of Neat & Cool (gravel area, with shady trees). And there is a nice grassy area with a picnic table. When I took my kids out at age 4 and 6 I found they did not want to go high, so short, high boulder problems with a top rope anchors would have been ideal.

Here is what the area looked like last year


And here is what it looked like this summer:


It's hard to say how those short crags on the left (in the trees) will clean up and look once the landings are cleared and swept clean. I agree some have slopy landings so they may not be suitable for children but others have potential. It will be be up to parents to determine what is safe and appropriate for their kids.

Keep the discussion going but please keep the tone civil.

[Jordo]

It's hard to say how those short crags on the left (in the trees) will clean up and look once the landings are cleared and swept clean. I agree some have slopy landings so they may not be suitable for children but others have potential. It will be be up to parents to determine what is safe and appropriate for their kids.

Exactly. I took my ~5 year old up there this summer and we had a hoot. I tied him to a tree while I set up a TR and he had a shot clambering up the descent gully with the fixed line. He called it an FA: "Hoth Attack" Mind you he seems more into chossy fourth class stuff than super safe vertical lines. Is there a genetic marker for mountaineering DNA?

[J Mace]

"ALL YOU MEETUP/UNIVERSITY/MOUNTAINEERING GROUPS - SKILLS PRACTICE AREA"

Actually thats what the bluffs are for, but thanks for letting us know that Neat and Cool was busy with newbies in the middle of August.

[J Mace]

a "dedicated" practice crag right on the trail wouldnt hurt methinks

Ya its called neat and cool.

is there any reason why a group needs to practice rapping on a nice weekend on popular climbs ...

Certainly no less of a reason why a guy like yourself, who should know better is taking people to an over-run crag on a nice weekend in the middle of the summer. Why dont you show some stewardship and take a load off this crag and introduce your friends to any number of the new crags that are available both for newbies and hardcores alike.

[gotnoname]

Where is nursery? Is it part of funarama?

[squamish climber]

Received an update from the Smoke Bluffs Park Advisory Committee, they took the Kids Zone sign down earlier this summer and will promoting it as a family picnic area but not a kids climbing zone.