The Milk Road, a blog

[JSmith]

"I am speaking personally as a climber who is also a director with the SAS. I don't speak on behalf of anyone else"

[JSmith]

"I am speaking personally as a climber who is also a director with the SAS. I don't speak on behalf of anyone else"

[Optimally-Primed]

Just to clarify some facts.

JSmith spoke of the use of chainsaw. To be clear, I used only hand tools for vegetation removal.

I have come across 5 substantial (as in, leg diameter or so) trees in the 4 pitches that I've cleaned on so far. In total, I took out 2 and left 3, only removing their lower limbs of the 3.

I cleared brush at the base to make a proper roping-up area.

I am open to feedback and dialog on my vegetation removal strategy/threshold. I was operating under the impression that my approach was conservative and standard practice. If I was off-base, I am ready to revise my ways.

Jeremy Frimer

[Tenn]

Interesting...

The Stawamus Chief provincial park rock climbing strategy can be viewed here:

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/bcparks/explor ... awamus.pdf

It states (among other things obviously) that trees are not to be cut unless authorized by BC Parks. Cleaners have been working outside this guideline for a long time - we all know that. Generally, I don't really care about some cut trees. For me though, Europa crossed the line. The extreme cleaning of the old crap crags not only was an infraction of the above guideline, it is also very likely that peregrine falcon nesting habitat was seriously compromised. As we all know falcons are also managed in the rock climbing strategy. Since the creation of Europa, peregrines have been nesting in other areas - the south gully (2 years ago) and on the flats on the grand wall (last year). To me this is a clear indication that the dihedrals area is no longer preferred nesting habitat for the peregrines. Hopefully they can adapt.

So what's my point? Current cleaning practices on the chief are outside the rock climbing strategy. While SAS suggests that the RCS needs to be revisited, we as climbers can not assume that our needs are the only important management directives in the park. Peregrine falcon nesting habitat has been compromised by cleaning activities and the birds have been displaced from their preferred nesting area. Climbers are not proving to be responsible stewards of the chief. We are (and I do mean all of us here - the climbing community) putting our own interest in more, quality climbing ahead of other important resource management questions like endangered species management. This will likely lead to more involvement by BC parks in the management of some critical and controversial aspects. More regulation and enforcement.

I mean no offense by posting this to Jeremy(s) or to the people who put up Europa. Just my own opinions. Flame away...

[Aaron]

In defense to the necessity of tree removal I'll share the following: When a friend and I cleaned South Arête on the Apron we removed a tone of soil, a heap of vegetation and at least 5 trees. So I'm just as guilty as the next guy when it comes to tree removal. At the time my buddy protested against the removal of the trees and pointed out that any would be future climbers could easily climb around them. In defense to their removal I pointed out the fact that the crack we just finished cleaning was full of the trees route system. So had we left the things standing, they'd soon be dead and standing trees. The pesky reality is that trees love to grow their roots in the very cracks we love to climb. When I've seen the alternative to this practice the consequences of poor route cleaning becomes obvious. Case in point; On the top of the first pitch of Sunshine Breakfast you enter a hand size crack before reaching the belay. The route developers cleaned the crack and subsequently removed the route system to a tree found at the first belay. Presumably, in keeping with Parks climbing strategy they kept the tree in place. About a year after their efforts the tree in question was dead and dry and kindly. So WFT? I can kill a tree but I can't "cut it down"

If BC Parks demands that we preserve the life of all trees the future development of quality routes will end.

Any access society that personally would support would stand apposed to this policy, and rightfully so.

Aaron Kristiansen

[Tyrone Brett]

Tyrone Brett here again.

Just an update (well not an update, more like an fyi) that I am communicating off-line with the various parties on this issue in the hopes of moving forward to resolution. I appreciate what has happened has happened and what's been said has been said, but I think everyone wants to look foward for a way out of this in a way that's best for the community.

Stay tuned,
Tyrone
SAS

[Tyrone Brett]

Reagrding tree removal

Hi Tenn and Aaron,

I believe that one of the sticking points of the original RCS was the definition of a "tree" (!) and that point may have been glossed over in favour of moving forward. Bottom line is the SAS has accepted that vegetation management and tree removal has become necessary to maintain the climbing resource of squamish- it's the nature of our climate. Recognizing that, we are working at bringing parks and the district into a new era of cooperation that would update resource management strategies that both protect and enhance the climbing experience while taking other important issues in account (like conservation). With the growth in popularity of the sport, popularity of cleaning and new routing, etc... all these issues need to be put front and center and above board and dealt with. We're hoping a new Climbing Stewardship Strategy can do that. To the view the report which forms the backbone of this initiative check out our website squamishclimbing.ca

Cheers,
Tyrone
SAS

[Mr.Sleazy]

Case in point; On the top of the first pitch of Sunshine Breakfast you enter a hand size crack before reaching the belay. The route developers cleaned the crack and subsequently removed the route system to a tree found at the first belay. Presumably, in keeping with Parks climbing strategy they kept the tree in place. About a year after their efforts the tree in question was dead and dry and kindly.
Aaron Kristiansen

Hi Aaron -

Route developer of Sunshine Breakfast here. Your point illustrates how complicated this issue is. When we cleaned the 1st pitch of Breakfast, no roots were removed from the crack, only some dangling dead roots and branches were cut. The tree at the 1st belay was left because we LIKED the tree; it was a cool, gnarled old hemlock. I recall thinking at the time something like "hmm these roots are dead maybe the life expectancy of this tree is not so long..."

Kind of sad if its dead (also somewhat skeptical, often these cliff trees appear dead when they are just being their scrawny mangy old selves) but very doubtful that our cleaning activities killed this tree.

Not trying to dodge responsibility, just pointing out there are complications here. Also agree with you that some tree removal is justified.

As far as Milk Run, I haven't seen the cleaning. Chainsawing seems a little far fetched; its very close to the park cabin at the campground and I think would have attracted attention very quickly.

I very much support the idea that climbers need to police themselves. Imagine what it would be like if you needed a "permit" to develop a route. I think Jeremy (the Optimus one) has been very good about putting development info out there in a public forum; many have not done so and are not subject to near the level of scrutiny.

[Optimally-Primed]

Tyrone, many others, and I are in private dialog on the issue---as Tyrone mentioned. So I'll continue to avoid entering into the debate here. I've found all of your comments to be interesting though, and appreciate the support that some of your have voiced.

Just a fact to clarify:

I did not use a chainsaw or any other power tool on The Milk Road, nor on any other cleaning project that I have ever done. (To be honest, I don't even know how to use a chainsaw.)

All cutting was done with pruners and with a Japanese handsaw... exactly the lower one below.



Jeremy Frimer

[jefffski]

A discussion of these issues might be based on a wide ranging report, found at the link below. The report was completed in 2008 by Kevin Mclane.

http://squamishaccess.ca/?p=477

The issue regarding vegetation is discussed on page 22 with photos on page 23.

In his conclusion, the author recommends that among the issues that need to be addressed soon is a vegetation management strategy.

[Aaron]

the cedar at the base of the Split Pillar has grown from
a small bush 50 years ago to a substantial tree rooted in the
crack at the base of the right side of the pillar. As is evident
to anyone who looks closely, the entire Split Pillar and the
Sword above it are attached to the wall at this point by only a
few square metres of rock in a shear zone. There is cause to
believe the tree’s roots may be creating expansive pressure that
could weaken the shear zone. Consideration should be given to
removing the tree

Cut down the Split Pillar tree eh'? I for one would be all for it. But who ever does it better do it under the cover of darkness and carry the secret of what they've done to their grave. Either that, or just be at piece with the fact that a sizable portion of the climbing community is going to really pissed off at them.

Aaron.

[Trick]

just be at piece with the fact that a sizable portion of the climbing community is going to really pissed off at them.

Aaron.

I bet most of the climbing community wouldn't really care all that much. I bet most would be in favor of it if they believed the expanding tree roots would shear the pillar off. The rest that would oppose it, however, tend to be very umm 'vocal'. =)

Either way, we either have the amazing split pillar or some new problems in the forest.

[Mike C.]

I can only assume that it was the Milk Road team up on the wall today trundling down huge blocks without much concern for the people in the forest. One sign laying on the ground at the Titanic bouldering area trailhead is not exactly adequate. It would be bad enough to do this on a rainy day, but today was gorgeous and with Olympic tourons wandering just about everywhere it makes you look pretty irresponsible. Dead tourists don't make for good press.

[Optimally-Primed]

There were no fewer than 6 signs in the forest, one at the entrance to the parking lot, three in the boulders, and one on each end of the base trail with CAUTION flagging tape blocking the way.

The signs say "Route Cleaning in Progress... Rockfall Hazard... DO NOT GO BEYOND THIS SIGN"

Rain was falling and it was a week day.

Mike C, on the contrary, I showed an enormous amount of concern for public safety. Perhaps your ignorance about the measures that I took (ie 6 signs, not 1, and flagging tape) explain your off-base, irresponsible comment.

Your welcome

[Optimally-Primed]

There were no fewer than 6 signs in the forest, one at the entrance to the parking lot, three in the boulders, and one on each end of the base trail with CAUTION flagging tape blocking the way.

The signs say "Route Cleaning in Progress... Rockfall Hazard... DO NOT GO BEYOND THIS SIGN"

Rain was falling and it was a week day.

Mike C, on the contrary, I showed an enormous amount of concern for public safety. Perhaps your ignorance about the measures that I took (ie 6 signs, not 1, and flagging tape) explain your off-base, irresponsible comment.

Your welcome