Squamish ratings???

[psychedelic]

Ok, it has been raining way too much lately and I'm bored so I thought I'd start something new. Please don't think I'm trashing Squamish, I love the place! But here it is...

Squamish ratings have always seemed soft compared to many other areas. Compare Squamish to Yosemite and pretty much every route in yosemite is harder for the the same rating. I've climbed a decent amout at Squamish, Index, and Yosemite and I have to say it is no where near close. A climb like Crime of the Century seems about 11a at Index. Yet in Squamish it is given 11c. I know I'm not the only one that thinks this, most people I know think the same thing.

I'm not a squamish local so it isn't my home crag. But I'm thinking that it is for most of you. What is your experiance with this?

I hope you all aren't just sport climbers here....HAHAHA

[MCpl]

When you mention soft. Are you generally talking about 1 or 2 letter grade difference? How many examples can you site? Which routes are these examples? Are the routes you are comparing them to of the same type of climbing?

[tattooed_climber]

YDS is an aprox. as it is......i have gym rat/sport bitches that are 'piss your pants' scare at crack climbing...so 5.8 for me, is a 12 to them.....

ok.....slab, face, crack (pinkie-locks, ring, finger jams, hands, fist, OW, chimney, etc) are ALLLLL under one grading system...not to mention aid,PAs, mixed, ice, commitment, protection, quality,etc, thats also association with a routes grade....EVERYTHING is opinionated....old schoolers that bolted alpine on lead with 1/4 inch rivets rated sh*t as 4th class...and today they're moder 8s (for example, crown mtn)....

areas depict alot....squish granite is different to climb then limestone in the rockies....

its all a vauge reference in my opinion......guidelines if you will...

[erock]

I guess Squamish has suffered some grade inflation over the years.

I was just looking at the guide book and saw that peter croft and tami knight did the first ascent (of crime O.T. century). Now i havent even touched the route but from what i gather croft may be a bit of a sandbagger. does anyone know if the climb got graded by croft or did a consensus come later?

I suppose, soft or not there is enough really hard climbing in squamish for most strongmen or strongwoman.

now we just need some sun....

[erock]

Check it out. this is supposedly from the 1975 gordon smaill cheif guide.

sunshine chimney (bulletheads) 5.4 now 5.8

the flake and apron strings (grand wall) 5.9 now 5.10b

Just thought this would add to the discussion a little bit.

[psychedelic]

Erock, I like that you brought that up. I think somethink like the Flake is probably right at 9 if you put it in a place like yosemite. So they had it right at the start and then somehow it went off. All I know is that I've fallen off my share of 11- in many places. But I go to Squamish and onsight 11+s, it just doesn't seem quite right. I've done probably 100+ routes in the Bluffs from 5.6-5.11+, so it isn't like I'm just talkin a couple routes. I wish I had done more long routes, but my friends say the same thing about them. It isn't too big of a deal becasue it seems the ratings are pretty much the same for the whole place from my limited experiance. But someone like Peter Croft was highly effecient in yosemite climbing HARD cracks and came from squamish.

Squamish is still one of my favorites no matter what the rating is.

[mcgarnickle]

Some stuff in Squish is soft. Squishy soft. But my opininon is not that the whole place is so. It is more inconsistent than anything. Just keeping the thread on track with trad stuff, check out a climb called Red Nails. Its also in the bluffs just past the zip. This is also rated 11c. It is not even comparable to crime of the century. It is at least 4 or 5 letter grades harder, I sh*t you not. Same for Split Beaver, by no means easy at the grade. Compared to Yosemite's revered Outer Limits? The Beaver is WAAAAAY harder! Rutabaga and Deadend Dihedral, both of these are extremely hard for the grade, and that's just off the top of my head. Maybe its because these last couple are a bit dirty, but hard for squamish and everywhere else. I can name lots of routes that feel just as soft, sometimes silly so, but I don't want to hurt people's feelings who struggled on them.
My point is, grades here are very inconsistent, probably as a result of the many years of different first ascentionists, and the very infrequent repeats of some of the more obscure cracks. In yosemite, everything has been climbed a thousand times, so it is dead on the money. In index, everything was pretty much put up by one group of guys, so the grades there seem much more consistent. Anyhoo, thats all I have to say about that.

[MCpl]

I don't have much to add. I just wanted to say that the inconsitency because of history approach is a good one.

[psychedelic]

Red Nails is a great climb! Harder for sure, but different style. I forgot about that one. I think more people should do that, it is better than the book makes it sound! The top is dirty and not as cool though, so that keeps people away I think. Anyone reading this that leads that grade should go and do it. The first part of the climb is awesome.

So is Split Beaver, I don't know what the book gives it but it is probably right. That is one of my favorites in the Bluffs, vertical and rad! I thought those other 2 climbs were stiffer than most 9s in Squamish.

Never done Rugabeta or Deadend, I've always wanted to do Deadend. Would you reccomend it much?

Another possible reason for gradeing weirdness... top down! Nothing wrong with it but I've found you can not rate as well. I never feel like I'm rating right when I put routes up this way. I still like the history of how they used to be rated easier than now.

This makes me want to get up there and climb! Dry weather please come this spring!

[psychedelic]

Oh ya, just to let you know... Red Nails ended my onsighting streak in squamish. I don't have book on me but that is the one with a tire near the base and fixed pin in a horazontal like crack right?

I thought that Thin Wall Special was fairly tough compared to some other stuff at that grade. But the style is all weird cause the bottom undercuts right there.

Anyone ever done Cosmik Debris on Crag X? Always wanted to do that one but never felt up to it.

[5.4 Slayer]

The YDS grading system topped out at 5.10 at one point, then was bumped up to 5.11 and finally to 5.14. I'm too damn lazy to research the dates but that is why many Yosemite routes are so sandbagged and why the grades of earlier Squamish climbs were bumped up. If you're on a sandbagged Yosemite route you know it was sent years ago by Bachar or some other hard assed climber and the grade has not been bumped up appropriately when compared to the new "top" grade.

[monkeyboy]

You should be on Jeoprody!

[psychedelic]

I don't know how you can say Yosemite is sandbagged... Yosemite Decimal System. If anything yosemite is close to right on. I love when people say that though! I have so many people tell me that from no matter what climbing area they are from, that is one of the only arguments I don't think can stand.

Seems like the popular climbs are more the issue than the off beat stuff.