Moderate multipitch under 5.9 (with stations)

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avit
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Moderate multipitch under 5.9 (with stations)

Post by avit » Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:22 pm

Spinning off from another thread:
Lurch wrote:List of local multi pitch climbs with bolted belays, below 5.9.

Charlotte's web
Emil and the detectives
Star Chek
Phantom Menace
Diedre
Skywalker
There has to be more than that, no? That's it, really?

In that case, do link-ups like Mosquito + Phlegmish Dance count? Is there a station in the middle of Slot Machine, I think that would count? Does Europa belong on this list? (I haven't done it.)

Also, a few of the above are two-pitch deals that could conceivably string into a single pitch... there's a station though, so let it slide.

Ok, who needs bolted belays when you've got a good tree, so let's relax the criteria for this list a little bit, but it seems it's true that for some people bolted stations are a deal breaker.

Especially at the lower grades, the experience level for some people means they're still uncomfortable trusting their own full-on trad setup for the stations, even if they use the same gear in between.

I ran into this when I climbed with a partner from Europe this summer. His experience was mostly sport climbing so he tried to seek out more bolted routes, but more importantly, bolted belays. He was a strong climber in other respects so he was fine placing gear on lead, but he always asked about the belays on routes I proposed. Everyone's experience is different I guess.

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Re: Moderate multipitch under 5.9 (with stations)

Post by bradley3297 » Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:33 pm

most climbs around here have bolted belays. and if not that at least a tree. which is no harder than the bolted belays. i can count on one hand the amount of gear belays ive had to build in squamish.
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Re: Moderate multipitch under 5.9 (with stations)

Post by scrubber » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:58 pm

The fact is there aren't many multipitch climbs here below 5.9, bolted belays or otherwise.

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Re: Moderate multipitch under 5.9 (with stations)

Post by Lurch » Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:54 pm

You are right avit, I did forget Slot Machine and the lower half of the connect.

There are other ones too, Amo wall has a few moderates (slab), Old Style/Cider Crack/High Mountain Woody at the Malamute what are some other ones guys?

I can identify with the noob mentality when it comes to natural anchors. I can still remember the first time i sat on a gear belay on Calculus Crack. My partner left me quivering on a patch of dirt halfway up what used to be known as the first pitch. I tried to stand on it and it would crumble away. I had never weighted a peice of gear much less sat on one at that point.

This was before scrubber did such a nice clean up job on it.

There are plenty of easy lines out there but from the sounds of it they just take alot of work to uncover...

Thanks for all the hard work to uncover so many moderate classics lately! All the new routers in Squamish deserve much praise.

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Re: Moderate multipitch under 5.9 (with stations)

Post by Lurch » Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:06 am

Oh ya, Europa has a couple gear belays and some tree belays according to the topo. I dunno haven't been up there yet myself.

Bradley is right too most climbs around here do have bolted belays but not a large majority of the moderate multi-pitches on the apron do. I think that's a good thing though, because it inspired me to learn so i could go do those routes.

Scrubber is right too the options for 5.9 and under multi pitch climbs around here pale in comparison to the options 10a and above.

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Re: Moderate multipitch under 5.9 (with stations)

Post by Dru » Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:03 am

Sparrow and Over the Rainbow are both 5.8-5.9 throughout (despite the guidebook grades) and have bolted belays (maybe the first belay on Sparrow is gear, I can't remember?). Sparrow does have one tricky move past a bolt on the second pitch that is probably harder than 5.9 too.

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Re: Moderate multipitch under 5.9 (with stations)

Post by Anders Ourom » Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:36 am

There are tree belays on both Sparrow and Over the Rainbow.

I've always been a little uncomfortable with convenience bolting, in particular unnecessary bolt belays. (That is, bolt belays that aren't part of a usual rappel route, in places with good natural anchors.) I guess that's no news. Diedre is the classic example, where the existence of unnecessary bolt belays may create rather than solve problems, by luring in the unwary and unprepared. Unlike say Nutcracker, a similar climb in Yosemite.

Part of this is the quite unnecessary fuss often made about "multi-pitch" (or is that "MULTI-PITCH"?) climbs, and about creating belays by placing gear. Contrary to the books and courses, creating a belay is often NBC.

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Re: Moderate multipitch under 5.9 (with stations)

Post by avit » Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:21 pm

Anders Ourom wrote:I've always been a little uncomfortable with convenience bolting, in particular unnecessary bolt belays. [...] may create rather than solve problems
Yes, I tend to agree. I'm not advocating for more bolting necessarily. Diedre is a gong show most of the time, probably because of it. However, there's obviously a lot of demand for this kind of "Adventure Lite" climbing so it's nice to have the variety to spread things out a bit. I think one J. Frimer is doing an amazing service by opening up new routes like Skywalker for mere mortals to have an enjoyable time.
Part of this is the quite unnecessary fuss often made about "multi-pitch" (or is that "MULTI-PITCH"?) climbs, and about creating belays by placing gear. Contrary to the books and courses, creating a belay is often NBC.
NBC? I'm guessing you mean no big deal... I don't remember it being a big leap from the Bluffs to the longer routes on the Apron for me either. I think my first "multi-pitch" was Banana Peel, and while the first few times hanging from a few nuts & cams probably felt a bit exposed, I didn't even consider whether it was bolted or not before heading up. Then again, maybe it's because I was used to slinging my own TR anchors (trees, hexes) by then too.

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Re: Moderate multipitch under 5.9 (with stations)

Post by Lurch » Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:41 pm

Ya no big deal for trad climbers. Sport/Gym climbers who have a little single pitch bluffs under their belts as noob trad leaders? Big Deal :)

Don't get me wrong. I am not advocating that all the moderate climbs out there need bolts. I was simply saying that the recipe for a popular (read:BUSY) climb in the sea to sky is anything below 5.9 with more than one pitch and bolted belays.

I do feel that there is a need for such routes, just as much as any other style of climb.

Dru i did Sparrow recently and the first belay was a spindly little tree at a horizontal crack. I slung the tree and got a #1 friend and a sideways nut in the horizontal. The crux move on the fifth pitch is definetly a bit harder then 5.9. I've done that twice now, (we did sickle to the ledge then went right) and the move left onto the open face is significantly harder then the rest of the route.

For the most part you are right, but I must say i found Sparrow to be a bit run-out which i found quite exciting. The climbing was easy, but making some of those slab moves far away from your last bolt or piece gets the adrenaline going for sure.

Mike

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Re: Moderate multipitch under 5.9 (with stations)

Post by Optimally-Primed » Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:48 pm

The demography of Squamish climbing is shifting toward less experienced climbers (fresh out of the gym). This has to be the fastest growing user group. They feel prepared for moderate climbs of moderate length and they prefer bolted belays. For this reason, I suggest that the largest "demand" in Squamish is for more Skywalkers and Diedres... that is, unless we want to marginalize these new climbers.

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Re: Moderate multipitch under 5.9 (with stations)

Post by gnarnaphobe » Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:23 am

No body mentioned mercy me yet... :lol: :lol: :lol: they were a little cheap on the bolts on the way up but there is bolted anchors:mrgreen:
Imaging how much funner this could be with booze and explosives

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Re: Moderate multipitch under 5.9 (with stations)

Post by gnarnaphobe » Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:27 am

bearbreeder wrote: if yr trad leading IMO, you should know how to make an anchor
I couldnt agree more, you should be using the gear if you dont know how or are uncomfortable using it properly
Imaging how much funner this could be with booze and explosives

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Re: Moderate multipitch under 5.9 (with stations)

Post by steven » Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:05 am

bearbreeder wrote: its not like gear anchors are particularly hard to make either ... if yr trad leading IMO, you should know how to make an anchor, or sling a tree ... note that even banana peel requires 2 gear anchors and mostly slung trees if you have a 60m ... and thats as newbie a climb as you have here
I think for a lot of beginners it is a rack size issue and not an ability issue. I have known quite a few people just starting out who tried to find climbs with bolted anchors because they were climbing on a pretty small, shiny rack and were concerned they wouldn't have enough gear to build anchors and get up the route.

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Re: Moderate multipitch under 5.9 (with stations)

Post by gnarnaphobe » Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:22 am

gnarnaphobe wrote:
bearbreeder wrote: if yr trad leading IMO, you should know how to make an anchor
I couldnt agree more, you should be using the gear if you dont know how or are uncomfortable using it properly
Correction: SHOULDN'T be using the gear
Imaging how much funner this could be with booze and explosives

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Re: Moderate multipitch under 5.9 (with stations)

Post by NateDoggOG » Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:16 am

bearbreeder wrote:
steven wrote:
... bolt high mountain woody ... now theres a crack that eats up gear :mrgreen:
Climbed it at night, ran it out, only placed half a rack 8) Couldn't see the top due to said darkness, so I figured I might need the gear.

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