Here we go again (Squamish Gondola proposal)

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AaronRN
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Re: Here we go again (Squamish Gondola proposal)

Post by AaronRN » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:20 pm

psi4ce wrote: People, THINK about how the gondola will change your climbing experience in the Stawamus Chief Provincial Park!
Thought about it, and it won't IMO. I'm not going to be able hear the thing over the roar of the highway or rail line. I don't think it will spoil my view of the sound any more than the smog from the old pulp mill ever did back when it was up and running.

Lets talk about the positive shall we.
1. Ever been to the Fluffy Kitten wall? Me neither. Now don't get all uppity and tell me that their's a perfectly good trial, when we all know that the trail is a decommissioned logging road that climbers used to drive along to reach Habrich etc. I wonder how many of you would choose to turn your nose up at the perfectly good road and instead hump it in on foot when others would just drive.

2. Imagine all the easily accessible crags this gondola is going to open up! Don't believe me? Just look at the area on Google Earth. Won't be able to hear the highway from up there I bet.

4. There will be more trails, they will be though Park Land, they will be built by the gondola company, and they will be free to use. (you can read it in their business plan)

3. Speaking of Parks and the preservation of wild spaces. Has anyone given any thought that this gondola could result in the preservation of MORE land and not less. Do you think that anyone is going to be logging up in that drainage again after this thing gets built. When you're selling the idea of a million dollar view clear cuts and logging trucks don't factor it. Like you said it
profit rule supreme
and in this case this business stands to create and protect far more than it threatens to take away.

Aaron.

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Re: Here we go again (Squamish Gondola proposal)

Post by psi4ce » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:45 pm

and in this case this business stands to create and protect far more than it threatens to take away.
*EDIT*Yes, well, I suppose everyone is entitled to their opinion.

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Re: Here we go again (Squamish Gondola proposal)

Post by squamish climber » Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:18 pm

Last week The Land Conservancy (TLC) published a public statement on their website regarding the Sea to Sky Gondola. The history of gravel pit and the TLC selling it can be found here on the forum, but this statement puts a slightly different spin on it.

It looks to me like TLC made a mistake when they sold the land and put a covenant on it which they thought prevented a gondola from ever being built. The covenant said the property could not be used:
for a a gondola to travel up the face of the Chief or terminating in either provincial park.


The TLC admits that this covenant as worded allowed the developer to get around it by having the gondola terminate outside the park, on crown land.

When selling the property, TLC says they
never anticipated that BC Parks would consider removing land from the Park to facilitate such an endeavor.
It seems like TLC made a bad assumption there as it now looks like BC Parks is looking favourably at this project.

In some logic I don't understand TLC says their covenant will still
prevent this gondola, unless BC Parks gives permission to the developer.
But if their covenant simply said the land could not be used for a gondola period, we would not be having this discussion in the first place.
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Re: Here we go again (Squamish Gondola proposal)

Post by psi4ce » Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:52 pm

squamish climber wrote:But if their covenant simply said the land could not be used for a gondola period, we would not be having this discussion in the first place.
I've always believed that it was an absolute travesty that TLC sold the gravel pit to begin with. The absolutely amazing opportunity to commit that land to the park was thereby lost, probably forever. OK, maybe TLC couldn't eventually afford to keep the land, but there was plenty of time for a campaign. There was a campaign for the Skaha parkland, wasn't there? TLC stands for "The Land Conservancy". Where's the "concervancy" in selling a piece of prime parkland to a developer? It makes no sense to me, and I admit I've been quite angry about it. I still am, I suppose.

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Re: Here we go again (Squamish Gondola proposal)

Post by TRJ » Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:26 pm

I think the gondola and its associated trail will end up looking a lot like the Grouse Grind (both in aesthetic and character). My concern with this is that the the regulars of the Grind, Grinders, tend to be douches.

Douchebagadry aside. Here are a couple publications that are on the subject of using parks to increase profits by increasing infrastructure and patronage:

In Phantom Parks: The struggle to save Canada's national parks (particularly the chapter titled "Death by a thousand cuts") - Rick Searle

Mountains Without Handrails: Reflections on the national parks. - Joseph L. Sax

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Re: Here we go again (Squamish Gondola proposal)

Post by squamish climber » Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:05 am

A reminder that tomorrow night (Thursday, April 19th) at 7pm in the Britannia Beach Community Centre, there is a public hearing on the Sea to Sky Gondola.

Meanwhile, the recently formed group Friends of the Squamish Chief are calling for BC Parks to hold a public hearing on the proposal to remove land from the Stawamus Chief Park for the Gondola proposal.

Read the Georgia Straight articlefor more details
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Re: Here we go again (Squamish Gondola proposal)

Post by natsdad » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:08 pm

Hi Folks,

I'm a local climber (if you count East Van as local) and have been climbing happily in Squamish since 1990. Now I also bring my two young kids to climb and hike in Squamish. I'm opposed to the new Gondola proposal for a variety of reasons, and have written to several levels of government to express my opposition.

The main reason is that I value the serenity of climbing on the Chief and Shannon Falls and I don't want a Grouse Grind-like circus to degrade the experience of climbing the southern sections of the Chief, or for those who camp in the Chief's campground. Secondly, there will be huge, negative, ecological impacts during construction and post-construction, particularly in the terminal zone. During construction, the backside trail experience will be a noisy and dusty one. Ditto for camping and climbing in the bulletheads. Many big trees will need to be removed (they will remove any that might be blown into the path of the cables) and that will negatively impact wildlife habitat. And recently developed crags, like the "wiretap" area will be threatened. After construction, far more people will be traveling in the terminal zone and that will necessarily mean more trash, more erosion, more encounters with wildlife, more "lost" people and mechanized rescue operations.

Thirdly, I was among the people who contributed to TLC's campaign to secure that gravel pit and believed at the time that it put a permanent end to gondola proposals. I feel strongly that we must not allow protected lands to be removed from our parks (especially those containing world-class climbing) for any reason. (That goes double for removing park land for the profiteering of a few.)

I want to thank Anders for his enthusiastic leadership on this issue. I also encourage everyone who has climbed (or hiked) the Chief to make your views known to government and quickly.

I don't fully understand the actions of TLC in this matter, but I encourage their staff and members to also voice their concerns to government.

Steve
Vancouver

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Re: Here we go again (Squamish Gondola proposal)

Post by psi4ce » Tue May 08, 2012 10:02 pm


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Re: Here we go again (Squamish Gondola proposal)

Post by squamish climber » Fri May 25, 2012 12:31 pm

Just checked on SLRD website it looks like the gondola project will get third reading on Monday. Correct me if I'm wrong but the proponents will if they haven't already submit a trail map and interpretive plan including signs complete with costs estimates and a security deposit to cover 135% of the cost. As well the proponents must explain how it will address the concern over increased Search and Rescue costs.

So what do people think?

Below is the agenda for Monday's meeting related to the gondola, taken from the website
  • 4. Bylaws
    Unweighted Vote (except as noted)
    4.1. Request for Decision - Sea to Sky Gondola Application for Official
    Community Plan & Zoning Bylaw Amendment in Electoral Area D
    1. THAT Bylaw 1239, a bylaw to amend ‘Squamish Lillooet Regional
    District Electoral Area D Official Community Plan Bylaw No. 495,
    1994’ be read a third time.
    2. THAT Bylaw 1240, a bylaw to amend ‘Squamish Lillooet Regional
    District Electoral Area D Zoning Bylaw No. 540, 1994’ be read a third
    time.
    3. THAT prior to the adoption of Bylaw 1240, the following conditions
    be met:
    A) The provision of an appropriate legal mechanism (s. 219 covenant
    or other agreement) to ensure provision of the following amenities
    4. Bylaws
    prior to the issuance of a development permit:
    i) A trail network at the upper terminal site, including connections to
    offsite trails, complete with cost estimates, and securities in the
    amount of 135% of the estimated construction costs.
    ii) An interpretive plan, including a signage plan, referencing the
    cultural and historical aspects of the area complete with cost
    estimates, and securities in the amount of 135% of the estimated
    costs.
    B) The applicant will address the issues related to potential increases
    in search and rescue operations that may be generated as a result of
    this change in land use (to the satisfaction of the CAO and the Area D
    Director).
    4. THAT the adoption of bylaws 1239 and 1240 not be considered
    until the BC Parks legislation has been brought into force.
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Re: Here we go again (Squamish Gondola proposal)

Post by squamish climber » Fri May 25, 2012 5:36 pm

Alpinist Magazine posted today a short story on the issue. Squamish Gondola Project Receives Initial Approval

The story highlights most of the issues, the only quibble I have is the following
Former President of the Climbers Access Society of B.C., Anders Ourum has expressed neutral sentiments, in line with some of the environmental concerns raised by other parties, "I think it's up to the proponent to show that, yes, balancing all the factors, it's a benefit to the park and the public."
As a founder of Friends of Squamish Chief and one of the people leading the opposition against the park, I don't think you can call Anders being neutral.
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Re: Here we go again (Squamish Gondola proposal)

Post by freedomfilm » Fri May 25, 2012 7:28 pm

jefffski wrote:Anders has suggested an excellent alternative--from Britannia Beach to a better viewpoint. This would give all what they want:
  • The developers make money.
    Tourists get amazing views.
    Britannia Beach welcomes more tourists.
    Climbers and hikers can continue to climb unfettered by views of a gondola.
It's a win-win-win-win solution.
Unless Britannia, like others decide Not In My Back Yard.... It wrecks our view, increases neighbourhood traffic on already curvy low visibility streets with low enforcement, etc. And on it goes.

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Re: Here we go again (Squamish Gondola proposal)

Post by psi4ce » Sun May 27, 2012 5:19 pm

Climbed at the Bulletheads yesterday.

Did Slot Machine and Cream of White Mice. It was awesome.

I love the Bulletheads. The climbing has a wild, exploratory, adventurous feel.

But I'm pretty sure that's not what it's going to be like once the gondola goes in.

For those of you in favour of the gondola, I want you to look at this photo. That's where there is going to be a busy parking lot and gondola base station.

Climbing in the Bulletheads will never be the same.

Image

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Re: Here we go again (Squamish Gondola proposal)

Post by hevyduty » Mon May 28, 2012 6:50 am

If you are looking for a WILD Adventure Feel try The Valley of Shaddai. The Bulletheads are urban climbing at it's finest. The crags are 5 mins from one of the busiest summer campgrounds in N.America, Heck the world. The Malamute is now part of the Chief Park, climbing is protected in the Smoke Bluffs. Give and take, move forward, and enjoy. We're spoiled in Squamish. Hevy :mrgreen:

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Re: Here we go again (Squamish Gondola proposal)

Post by squamish climber » Tue May 29, 2012 2:38 pm

Sea to Sky Gondola Project passes 3rd Reading with Squamish-Lillooet Regional District:

The Chief posted the news this afternoon:
Proponents of the Sea to Sky Gondola project received more good news from the Squamish-Lillooet Regional District (SLRD) board table on Monday (May 28) in Pemberton, where the bylaw and OCP amendments for Electoral Area D were given third reading.

Board members heard results of the public hearing in mid-April and were told that most attendees were supportive, while many opposed had misconceptions about the project — that the gondola would land on the Stawamus Chief, for example — or had frustration over the Province's process of reclassifying of provincial park land.
So it looks like once the province passes the park reclassification the SLRD will give final approval. That could happen as early as June/July
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Re: Here we go again (Squamish Gondola proposal)

Post by deep » Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:16 pm

So it looks like this gondola is going through whether we like it or not...

What would Edward Abbey do?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monkey_Wrench_Gang

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