Who chopped the bolts on Raging Duck?

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rolfr
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Who chopped the bolts on Raging Duck?

Post by rolfr » Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:02 pm

Please identify yourself and your reasons for chopping the bolts. As a first ascentionist of numerous routes, every time I clean , bolt or rebolt a climb , I am open to public scrutiny and accountable for my actions by the climbing community. I am constantly aware of this responsibility and try to weigh current climbing standards and opinions with every bolt I place. I take responsibility for my actions by publicly attaching my name to my these routes.

Please identify yourself and the rationalization behind your actions. Your actions have as great an impact on the climbing community as mine did when i created the climb. You are as accountable to public scrutiny as I am.

Anominity is at the least elitist, and at the worst cowardliness for not accepting responsibility for your actions. I realize that I do not have any ownership of climbing routes, but please respect my time, effort and financial contribution by airing your grievances in a public forum.

I await your reply before I take any action.

Respectfully

Rolf Rybak

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Post by Optimally-Primed » Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:13 pm

I wholeheartedly agree with Rolf's assessment of the situation.

And while we are on the topic, I would also like to know the identity of the individual who quietly chopped the bolt off Genesis at Murrin this past summer. I have asked everyone I can think of and no one seems to know. Would the individual responsible for that action please step forward.

Route development is hard work, dangerous, and expensive. It is a huge volunteer effort that serves the community in the best way that the route developer knows how. For these reasons, this work deserves more than the yellow-belly chopper/choppers or Raging Duck and Genesis have demonstrated. Yellow-belly, step forward.

~Jeremy Frimer

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Post by bradley3297 » Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:58 pm

Kinda funny the first ascentionist put the bolt up so there really isnt any discrepancy. the chopper in this case really is ignoring ethics of this area. not that i dont fully respect bold lines.
Bradley

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Post by serac » Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:35 pm

Why Raging Duck? Once we are sure that it isn't going to get chopped again come into Climb On and I am sure we can work something out for hangers and bolts.

Dan
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Post by pinner » Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:53 am

bummer, that's a fun climb.

can't imagine this is a local climber, just doesn't make sense... but then there aren't too many visiting climbers this time of year either

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Post by Fre » Sat Jan 30, 2010 9:41 am

Whoho, the suspense is pretty intense... I have the feeling the bolt-chopper will throw off the (cowardly) cloak of anonymity any minute now.

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Post by gearheart » Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:20 pm

Some sleuthing has uncovered the responsible entity and the appropriate repairs are being arranged. The details will be made public in the next several weeks.
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Post by corn_dog » Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:13 pm

nice sleuthing...

dan

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Post by Optimally-Primed » Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:28 pm

Thank you to Todd and SAS for investigating this matter and seeing it to a conciliatory conclusion.
Jeremy

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Post by rolfr » Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:13 pm

Rather than flog that dead horse “ bolting issue”, when, where, how many, at what acceptable degree of difficulty, and who has the bigger set of cojones, I offer a solution.

I retro bolted Raging Duck to make it more accessible and moss free in a popular area. I will restore it to the original one bolt climb, and suggest placing new top route anchors for those climbers who don’t want to risk a ground fall ankle injury or runout.

I will wait with the new anchor until after I hear some chatter .

Rolf

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Post by Dooley » Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:19 am

Should we all go back to climbing in leather boots with hemp ropes and the only acceptable bolting process is on lead?

I agree with bolting to take away a ground fall or to make it more user friendly. That is my bit of chatter to add!
When in doubt....run it out!!!!

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Post by marc_leclerc » Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:56 pm

Dooley wrote:Should we all go back to climbing in leather boots with hemp ropes and the only acceptable bolting process is on lead?

I agree with bolting to take away a ground fall or to make it more user friendly. That is my bit of chatter to add!
Yeah! Lets bolt cracks to make it more user friendly to those who only own draws!

but seriously, I think that there is a place for serious climbs, where the rock has not been brought down to the level of the climber, and the climber does not train to be ready to sonfront the rock. Sport routes are good, but there is a place for routes that still require a cool head as well as technical skill to lead.

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Post by Dooley » Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:40 am

marc_leclerc wrote:
Dooley wrote:Should we all go back to climbing in leather boots with hemp ropes and the only acceptable bolting process is on lead?

I agree with bolting to take away a ground fall or to make it more user friendly. That is my bit of chatter to add!
Yeah! Lets bolt cracks to make it more user friendly to those who only own draws!

but seriously, I think that there is a place for serious climbs, where the rock has not been brought down to the level of the climber, and the climber does not train to be ready to sonfront the rock. Sport routes are good, but there is a place for routes that still require a cool head as well as technical skill to lead.
Yeah because that is exactly what I was implying :roll:
When in doubt....run it out!!!!

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Post by pinner » Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:56 am

respect your opinion marc; you may well be an all-around leader in the sport one day (been following your exploits on CC.com - nice work and progression young lad!) but let's remember that a lot of climbers have been climbing much longer than you, and will likely never climb as hard as you do already - your views may seem elitist to some because of your abilities.

There definitely is a place for climbs that are not brought down to the level of the climber - in fact, most places, and thank god for that. the base of Neat and Cool is maybe not one of them.

this is a climb that, as Rolf has stated, was mossy and overgrown.

it was bold, and leads to a ledge from which climbs of the following grades start:

2 x 5.6
2 x 5.7
5 x 5.8
2 x 5.9
1 x 5.10b

The 10b line is another face climb, I think unprotected (anyone climbed it?), and sees far less action than the rest. (at least from what I've witnessed, which is, granted, far from scientific documentation.)

The area sees very high traffic (lots of top-roping, hence lots of climbers uncomfortable leading without bolts - or who dont' have racks) and dries relatively quickly.

A bold 10b face climb, mossy, with more shade and hence slower drying, below a narrow ledge where newbies congregate, does not lend as much to this wall as does a well-bolted moderate route leading to the ledge, which will thus see more climbers and stay cleaner. It also offers an option of gaining the ledge for a lot more people without working around several parties on Flying Circus, Corner Crack, and Cat Crack, where there are usually plenty of topropers and their guff strewn about.

I have climbed Raging Duck, and seen several other parties on it. I have not climbed Pink Flamingo, a simliar route to the right. Is it bolted? Anyone have any input on how much action it sees?

At any rate, I vote for the bolts. There aren't many sport climbing opportunities in the bluffs (which is, of course, part of the attraction), but something for the strong gym-climber/new-trad-climber, or a stronger climber teaching a new climber etc. is always a welcome addition.

A climb a few feet off the trail in one of the most highly used beginner areas is maybe not an ideal location to remove a climb accessible to many and (re)render it a bold line, accessible to few - there're plenty of other places in the Bluffs, and in Squamish in general, more suited.

.... something difficult, but attainable, for newer climbers, is a wonderful thing.

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Post by Dru » Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:19 pm

I climbed Raging Duck both in its old 1-bolt plus gear-in-the-overlap state and its new sport climb state and didn't think they were exactly the same line - the old one seemed to drag you further left so you could get the gear in earlier while the bolts kept you more on the edges and knobs to the right. Of the two I thought the fully bolted line was better - although it would be entirely reasonable to have bolts on the bottom and the upper part gear-protected.

In response to pinners question about Pink Flamingo, it's a great dyke climb - 5.6 with minimal pro up to the break, a big cam (3, 3.5 or 4 camalot) in the break, and then three bolts of 10- face climbing above that. My only peeve is the location of the first bolt which is well to the right of most of the climbing and which is located right above a good hold such that when you clip it your draw prevents you from using the hold as a foothold.

Also it's possible, better protected and slightly easier to climb cracks just left of the dyke at the bottom and then step right into PF onto the big no-hands-rest foothold at the second bolt. Done that way it's more like a 10a than a 10b. Used to be dirty but cleaner now.

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