Malmute camping

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slopr
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Malmute camping

Post by slopr » Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:37 pm

Has anyone noticed the tent community on the upper Malmute that seems to be growing everyday? Seems like a great place to camp but with all the access issues that already threaten it's existence is it worth it to jeopardize hundreds of great climbs so you can save a few bucks or be closer to the crags @ the expense of the crags themselves. Tents can be clearly seen from the highway!! I know in the past that it has been a low key bivy site but it seems as though individuals are living there for more than a night or 2 since the tents are there all day and night like it's a legitimate campground. Today from up on the chief we counted 8 tents and a large tarped off area, i know these ppl. aren't locals but what course of action if any would be appropriate in a situation like this? (Friendly visit & reminder?Squamish access society? Tent burning? Mob rules?) It would be so sad to not be able to climb on the sweet Malmute granite anymore.

Trick
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Post by Trick » Sat Jul 11, 2009 7:02 pm

Yea, it's getting a little carried away. You can clearly see a tent from harbour. They certianly have a great view.

smallman
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Post by smallman » Sun Jul 12, 2009 7:28 am

Maybe a friendly reminder note is in order. If not, maybe if a couple tents mysteriously blew away to the bottom of the Malamute.......

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Post by serac » Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:41 am

I was wondering what they are doing with their sh*t. My calculation are 8 tents equal 16 150lb climbers equals 48 50lb dogs shitting in the woods 24hrs a day 7days a week if the dogs were living on pizza and beer. If it goes there maybe a voluntary closure do to the smell
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jstod
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Post by jstod » Sun Jul 12, 2009 6:56 pm

I've been wondering what the deal is with these tents for awhile and the fact that the community seems to be growing concerns me. I'm all for free camping but multiple tents in a high profile area such as the malamute could seriously threaten future access to the crag - a scary prospect for those of us who hope to climb there for years and years to come. Unfortunately I don't know the best solution...is this an issue for the Access Society to take up? Perhaps if diplomacy fails, some of the other measures mentioned above should be considered...

Riel
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Post by Riel » Mon Jul 20, 2009 12:14 pm

Hey there everyone. I'm one of the campers from up on the malamute, and I'd be happy to discuss this with anyone who came up to ask me.

Since this is a public internet forum, I'm not going to put anything on here. We've had a number of people mention to us that they read about us first on this site, before they noticed the tents.

That said, to Serac's question about sh*t. The short answer is that we don't sh*t where we eat.

pinner
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Post by pinner » Mon Jul 20, 2009 12:57 pm

Hey there Riel (or any other Malamute campers).

The issue is that the Malamute is one of the jewels of Squamish climbing, and happens to be already threatened access-wise. You are clearly aware of the special nature of the place, being lucky enough to live there for the time being.

The fact that many of the best climbs are already closed to access because of the Rail right of way, and the mysterious logging last year which threatened access to the entire area, leave the Malalmute as a sensitive issue for the long-time Squamish climber or local.

Please don't endanger this wonderful resource any further.

It is time to pack up and move.

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Post by pinner » Mon Jul 20, 2009 12:58 pm

From the Squamish Access Society:

Access to The Malamute
Although climbers have been active on the Malamute for over 40 years, it presents climbers today with the most high profile and complex access situation in the entire region. The Malamute can be considered as two separate areas; upper and lower, each with a different set of ownership and access issues.

The situation at the lower Malamute, where the CN Rail tracks skirt along the base of the cliffs, is that the rail right-of-way, some 18 metres each side of the tracks, has been aggressively declared by the rail company as ‘we may prosecute’ zone if they find climbers there.

All the Malamute crags and climbs beyond and above the rail right-of-way are on undeveloped private land and the owners, two Squamish businessmen, have offered no formal objection to the presence of climbers. However, this situation cannot be taken for granted, and it could change at any time. If you visit or climb at the upper Malamute, the SAS asks that you be fully aware it is private property and be respectful, both of the place itself, and anyone you may encounter there.

Published on October 20, 2006 · Filed under: Malamute;

jefffski
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Post by jefffski » Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:07 pm

Riel, as you can read above, the land is not public land. Your camping there threatens access to us all. Please do the right thing.

If the owners of the land read this, please evict them, or, even better, create a proper campground there. As a long-time squamish climber, I do not condone the actions of those whose actions undermine the good efforts of the hard working group of climbing volunteers. Those people have helped make Squamish an international destination that brings in millions of dollars to the community. The squatters do not represent the majority of us.

Riel
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Post by Riel » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:22 pm

Congratulations, you win.

Number of people that came and talked to us since my post: 1, but only if you include the park ranger that just wanted to make sure we already knew about the fire ban. (For the record, we self-imposed a fire ban 3 weeks ago, realizing the dry climate was creating a fire threat)

Number of tents that have 'mysteriously' disappeared: 1

I'm rather frustrated with the whole local climbing community right now, because I left a very clear message to come and talk to us. I know this was likely just one, maybe two people who did this, but they justified their actions through everyone else on here.

But it's the fact that this was a 'message' from the climbing community. There are no other groups of people that had any problems with us being up there, so it's clear to us that local climbers are the ones that perpetrated this act.

One person tried to talk to us once, it was the middle of the day, when no one is at home anyways, and just left a print out of what this forum already said. I've already read the forum. You weren't making any new point or allowing us to make counter points, as a normal discussion would go. You were harassing us. When you stole/threw one of our tents, you were criminally harassing us. You aren't the law, and don't have the rights to play your vigilantiasm with us.

Now then, I'm going to make all my counter points here instead, since I've decided the criminal harassment is not worth it, and have packed up my site and left, and will unfortunately not have a chance to actually talk with any of you in person now. I was actually looking forward to having a chance to do so.

1) The owners have made it fairly clear (though not explicitly clear), by not making any statements, not putting up any 'no camping' signs, not contacting the SAS about the campers, that they really just don't care about people on their land. The land is worth a lot of money, they realize this. They also realize that people using the land in a temporary sense isn't devaluing the land at all. If there was a 'no camping' sign anywhere, I'd have taken any of the points made in this forum way more seriously. There isn't.

2) The SAS, in it's statement about the Upper Malamute, asks people to be respectful about the fact that it's private property. There is nothing inherently disrespectful about camping on someone's land. We kept our site clean of garbage, and tried to minimize our impact on the surrounding ecosystem. Yes, we had an impact on the area. So do all the mountain bikers setting new lines and climbers cleaning new cracks.

3) The 'mysterious' logging that 'threatened' access last year, actually happened 2 years ago, and it was the land owners. People (likely including many local climbers) were up in arms about them logging their land. Yes, they didn't get the proper permits. They also let you have full access to their land at any time of day, year round.

4) Fourty years ago, the chief campground did not exist. People were illegally squatting on crown land. Now it is a park with a wonderful campsite, and the climbing has been permanently protected. Squatters have done things in the past that have helped the climbing community. Don't jump to conclusions about what might happen.

5) There are squatters at a number of places in Squamish. I'm not going to give a list, because I imagine any people squatting in any of those locations wouldn't appreciate the attention, but I also hope many of you realize that this isn't the only place that has squatters.

6) There was no issue about any of the campers on the Malamute, until someone came on this forum, and said it. Just because it's on the internet, doesn't mean it's true.

Anyways, congratulations. You win.

Riel
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Post by Riel » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:27 pm

For the record, I was in the largest site, the yellow tarn 3 with the camo tarp over it. I lived up there the longest of anyone this summer. I was there for 55 nights, and we spent countless nights sitting at the edge of the cliff (which we called our patio) watching the port and trains.

It was a fantastic summer and will likely be a highlight of my life. I leave for Peru in 5 days.

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Post by Dooley » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:45 pm

Well said Riel and I am glad that you were able to enjoy Squamish for 55 nights. There are not many areas in the world where you can do that. If the owners of the land dont want people camping there then all they have to do is put up a sign. Hell as you said they tried to log the area without permits, I dont think they would care about tents!

But, welcome to the new canadian police force. Where other peoples actions are examined and commented on from the comforts of a computer!

Waiver: I do not agree nor condon the actions that are outlined within this thread!
When in doubt....run it out!!!!

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Post by Cloudraker » Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:26 pm

This post was edited by the moderator.

Riel, your logic is ridiculous, and you and your pals are jeopardizing the future of this resource. Glad you're leaving - take your friends with you.

pinner
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Post by pinner » Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:16 pm

Riel, I'm glad you were able to enjoy such a wonderful summer, and I applaud your impromptu community's efforts in maintaining a clean 'campground' and fire ban.

However, I am glad that the tent city is folding itself up and moving. Because of the high visibility and profile of the area, larger groups, and less respectful and messier parties moving in would be inevitable.

Enjoy your trip in Peru, but don't camp out on the "secret" mushroom peak next to Machu Picchu for too long! ;)

and if you don't know about it/need directions to the trail, pm me

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Post by t-bone » Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:17 am

agree with Cloudraker....

good riddance Riel

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