the Forgotten Wall has been up for awhile now and lots of people have had a chance to climb the routes. I just wanted to know what people think of the grades. Are they accurate? I know that the suggested grades that are currently used in the latest guidebook were given in haste because of the guidebooks release date. This is what I think should be more accurate... what do you think?
From Beneath You It Devours - 5.12a
The Reach Around - 5.12a
Got Pull - 5.11c
Creepy Crawlers - 5.10d
Trunk Monkey - 5.11d
The Voodoo That You Do - 5.10b/c
Boiler Room - 5.12c
Rug Munchers - 5.11b
Forgotten Realm - 5.9
For the most part, I think the grades for Got Pull, and Rug Munchers are good as is. Rug Munchers may or may not be harder than 11d.
But that is just me adding in my two cents. Andrew Itkonen should weigh in, he has climbed them all.
Creepy Crawlers - 5.11a
The Voodoo That You Do - 5.10b/c
Rug Munchers - 5.11d/12a
Creeping Right - 5.10d (Too horrible to be an 11a)
Filth Infatuated - 5.11c/d
If Rug Munchers and Got Pull are down graded then I think it is time to revisit the grades for Neutered Bovine and Mutation.
And Marty, you are right, grades are very subjective. I am sure at 6'1" I am going to find routes completely different than someone who is 5'nothing". It's the way it is, always has been, and always will be. Subjective grades are what makes this sport as interesting as it is.
The Reach Around - 5.12a (12a)
Got Pull - 5.11c (11d)
Creepy Crawlers - 5.10d (10d)
Trunk Monkey - 5.11d (12a)
The Voodoo That You Do - 5.10b/c (10c)
Boiler Room - 5.12c (12c)
Rug Munchers - 5.11b (11d)
Forgotten Realm - 5.9 (?)
Low Impact (10a)
Mikes Link 2 (11d)
Yes, I am very good at telling the difference between an 11c and an 11d, or an 11d and a 12a.brockt wrote:Can you really tell the difference between an 11c and an 11d, or an 11d and a 12a, ect. I sure as hell can't. I agree that grades are completely subjective. I could tell you how hard I think something is for me from 1 to 10. 1 being I could do it in my street shoes, 10 being at the limit of my physical ability (perceived exertion rating) but I would never be able to stick a precise grade on something that someone else wouldn't complain about. I don't know where I'm going with this...oh yeah, just stick a grade on it an who cares. It'll feel different for everyone anyhow.
The difficulty of climbs usually has many variables like steepness, size of holds, distance between holds, type of rock, type of features, presence and relevance of chalk marks, not to get into whether danger is part of difficulty.
However, people are amazingly good at making this type of judgement. Not perfect, just very good. And some people are better at it than others. Consensus may elude us but don't think that because people disagree then difficulty ratings can't be useful.
Just don't trust them 100%.
Before doing a climb the difference between 11c and 11d and between 11d and 12a is very important to me but even more important is knowing the person who rated it.
After doing a climb the rating is much much less important and I may do a bad job of telling the next poor schmuck what it is. But I try.
Also, the difference between 11c and 11d is much greater than the difference between 11d and 12a, on average.
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