Chek development
Chek development
Good job to those who have spent time on new route development at Chek. Although some of the routes are over-bolted (Master of my Domain!?) the climbs are generally pretty good.
The only thing that I don't understand is the labelling of the routes with black marker. Talk about stupid! Maybe that was acceptable in France in the mid-80s but not now. It is absolutely pointless....you still need a guide since there are no grades. Its a shame to see such a tacky display.
The only thing that I don't understand is the labelling of the routes with black marker. Talk about stupid! Maybe that was acceptable in France in the mid-80s but not now. It is absolutely pointless....you still need a guide since there are no grades. Its a shame to see such a tacky display.
Thanks for the responses.
I do realize MomD was bolted for beginning leaders but I still have a problem with the over-bolting. There are plenty of beginner sport leads (up to 5.9) in the valley and Charlotte's Web is a pretty good first multi-pitch. The problem with bolting crack lines is that it sets a precendent....new climbers may not realize that it is generally not acceptable to bolt protectable lines.
As for the felt pens, I'm sorry but it is tacky....I've climbed at Forgotten Wall twice and both my partners felt the same way. I think it is pointless because with a topo (downloable from your site!) the climbs are easily identifiable. A question....would you suggest doing this in Squamish (say the base of the Grand or the Bluffs)? Myself, I wouldn't want to see this become accepted practice elsewhere.
I'm sorry, I don't want to b%$ch too much because the routes are generally fun and a lot of work has been invested into the area.
I do realize MomD was bolted for beginning leaders but I still have a problem with the over-bolting. There are plenty of beginner sport leads (up to 5.9) in the valley and Charlotte's Web is a pretty good first multi-pitch. The problem with bolting crack lines is that it sets a precendent....new climbers may not realize that it is generally not acceptable to bolt protectable lines.
As for the felt pens, I'm sorry but it is tacky....I've climbed at Forgotten Wall twice and both my partners felt the same way. I think it is pointless because with a topo (downloable from your site!) the climbs are easily identifiable. A question....would you suggest doing this in Squamish (say the base of the Grand or the Bluffs)? Myself, I wouldn't want to see this become accepted practice elsewhere.
I'm sorry, I don't want to b%$ch too much because the routes are generally fun and a lot of work has been invested into the area.
As far as overbolting goes: one simple rule, don't like the amount of bolts, then don't clip all of them. Think about the person who can only lead max 5.8/9 then MMD is perfect, how about your kid going for his or first lead? Ever climbed at the Golf Course at Grassi in Canmore? That thing is bolted to the hilt for that exact reason. It's always easy for stronger climbers to say there are too many bolts, I'm sorry but I don't have time for that. Bolted cracks, I'm not a fan either but to have to bring a rack for one section of crack on a sport route where 99% of the routes are pure sport is a little silly. And you know what? That route would not be climbed and would eventually be grown over. As far as the name writing goes: I'm neutral on the subject, most of the names have worn off anyways, but the comparison of the grand or bluffs is apples and oranges as far as I'm concerned. (Disclosure-I have put up some of the routes at Forgotten) 
I think the point about Chek being a sport area is valid and you are probably correct that if MMD wasn't bolted it would become overgrown. I guess I just have difficulty buying into the first lead argument because I feel climbs shouldn't be over-bolted, even ones specifically designed for first-time leaders. MMD is graded at 10a so I doubt anyone would try it as their very first lead.
Incidentally, when I climbed it I skipped about 3 or 4 bolts (and I'm a super-cautious climber) just because I didn't feel like clipping twice from the same stance.
Anyways, the bolting issue really isn't that big a deal....a couple of extra bolts on a few climbs isn't the end of the world.
As for writing on the walls though....how is a comparison to the Bluffs (or even Rogues) not valid....they are both single-pitch climbing areas?? Writing on the rock just doesn't make sense....what's the point? Once we start writing on the rock (even neatly and w. black marker) where does it stop? How about a graffiti style drawing at the base of each climb? The argument that it helps visiting climbers is not true unless the grade of the climb is added....not many climbers will hop on a route without nowing the grade.
Incidentally, when I climbed it I skipped about 3 or 4 bolts (and I'm a super-cautious climber) just because I didn't feel like clipping twice from the same stance.
Anyways, the bolting issue really isn't that big a deal....a couple of extra bolts on a few climbs isn't the end of the world.
As for writing on the walls though....how is a comparison to the Bluffs (or even Rogues) not valid....they are both single-pitch climbing areas?? Writing on the rock just doesn't make sense....what's the point? Once we start writing on the rock (even neatly and w. black marker) where does it stop? How about a graffiti style drawing at the base of each climb? The argument that it helps visiting climbers is not true unless the grade of the climb is added....not many climbers will hop on a route without nowing the grade.
Trad in Chek
The nice thing about trad in Cheakamus Canyon is that on a busy day in July or August when there are line ups for every other route from Seal Cove to Pemberton you can be assured that simply by bringing a rack to Cheakamus ort CalChek you can avoid the crowds and climb good routes all day.
Great response, With all the new routes that have been developed in chek over the last year to 2 years I have noticed an increase in the number of climbers in the area. In the same breath all the new areas have greatly reduced the climbers in the older popular areas, quite often we can climb most of a day without seeing more than 2 to 4 people
Bottom line more climbs=more climbing!
Thanks to everyone for all the effort and money and all the great climbs!!!
Bottom line more climbs=more climbing!
Thanks to everyone for all the effort and money and all the great climbs!!!
Just want to respond to the "writing route names on walls" issue.
The fact that anyone could have a reason against writing names on the wall is due to the fact that there was a comprehensive and readily available topo on the SquamishClimbing.com website. In addition to that, credit has to be given to Marc B for getting a newer guidebook out so that more people would have beta for the new routes. Without those two factors, the routes would have been logged into some obscure "new route" book in either MEC or Climb On where very few people would have exact (if that) descriptions on the new routes.
When the decision was made to write on the walls, it was based on this website, with topo, not existing. And exprience from travelling to Europe where topos are in different languages. In Arco, even with a guidebook (they only published it written in German and Italian), it was difficult to locate routes without route names on the wall.
Now, in saying all that, I can agree that the names on the wall may not be necessary. But they are not tacky, because they convey information that help people landmark. They definately do help. I was at the Crest two weekends ago and a couple, with new Squamish Select guidebook in hand, could not find routes until I helped them landmark.
They are crags that are currently being developed. One going to a new crag, where a new route goes up every few weeks, will not be able to go off of information like: "the second line of bolts you come up to is a great 11-"
The fact that anyone could have a reason against writing names on the wall is due to the fact that there was a comprehensive and readily available topo on the SquamishClimbing.com website. In addition to that, credit has to be given to Marc B for getting a newer guidebook out so that more people would have beta for the new routes. Without those two factors, the routes would have been logged into some obscure "new route" book in either MEC or Climb On where very few people would have exact (if that) descriptions on the new routes.
When the decision was made to write on the walls, it was based on this website, with topo, not existing. And exprience from travelling to Europe where topos are in different languages. In Arco, even with a guidebook (they only published it written in German and Italian), it was difficult to locate routes without route names on the wall.
Now, in saying all that, I can agree that the names on the wall may not be necessary. But they are not tacky, because they convey information that help people landmark. They definately do help. I was at the Crest two weekends ago and a couple, with new Squamish Select guidebook in hand, could not find routes until I helped them landmark.
They are crags that are currently being developed. One going to a new crag, where a new route goes up every few weeks, will not be able to go off of information like: "the second line of bolts you come up to is a great 11-"
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