Passing on long routes
Passing on long routes
Should "slower" climbers allow "faster" climbers pass on long multi-oitch routes? Can climbers ask to pass?
The situation I was faced with was we were caught up behind 3 average speed parties who were caught up behind a really slow party. Behind us was a couple that was really going fast. I felt inclined to ask to pass (and I know the pair behind us was really wanting to pass). But the dilemma is that I would have to ask 3 parties (who could hold their own) if I could pass them and then get to the slow pair and ask them.
I think there is no solution to this. We showed up later, people have a right to climb at the pace they desire. It just made for a long day (13hrs).
The situation I was faced with was we were caught up behind 3 average speed parties who were caught up behind a really slow party. Behind us was a couple that was really going fast. I felt inclined to ask to pass (and I know the pair behind us was really wanting to pass). But the dilemma is that I would have to ask 3 parties (who could hold their own) if I could pass them and then get to the slow pair and ask them.
I think there is no solution to this. We showed up later, people have a right to climb at the pace they desire. It just made for a long day (13hrs).
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thebigchin
- Junior Member
- Posts: 98
- Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 8:29 am
Was that on Angel's Crest on Sat? My buddy and I were the last party up. We took our time and had a nice relaxed meander up. When we got to the top of the Acrophobe I was blown away at the traffic jam ahead of us! It had cleared, tho, by the time we ate, snoozed and solved some of the world's problems.
As far as the original question goes, I feel as tho the slow party can let a faster party pass only if they want to. If they're feeling as though they don't want anyone in front of them, then its their right to refuse the pass.
If you're a fast team and decide to go up something like Angel's Crest knowing that there's another party (or 5) ahead of you, then you MUST be prepared for a slow climb. Show up early or be prepared. Pressuring the group ahead of you to let you pass is bad form!
As far as the original question goes, I feel as tho the slow party can let a faster party pass only if they want to. If they're feeling as though they don't want anyone in front of them, then its their right to refuse the pass.
If you're a fast team and decide to go up something like Angel's Crest knowing that there's another party (or 5) ahead of you, then you MUST be prepared for a slow climb. Show up early or be prepared. Pressuring the group ahead of you to let you pass is bad form!
this is a good question, for there is no correct answer, imo!!
i faced the exact same situation on the grand wall a few weeks ago, where we took the standard way up, and a couple of Quebec people (lol) approached via cruel shoes. well, they beat us cause they were already on the last pitch when we started apron strings, but when we got to the pillar, they were just sitting there!!?
i politely asked if they were going to continue, and they said yes! so i hinted to hurry, cause they were sitting on that cedar tree for like 45 mins!!
so by the time my partner got to the belay, they sarted climbing...
45 mins later, the leader was half way up the pillar
so instead of asking to pass, we bailed! knowing that we would be finishing in the dark...
this is the same french team, whom which took a shat in the back of the chimney at the top of the pillar
it was still there a week later!
so to answer the original question, there is no correct answer! if it's just you and them, then i would ask!! what are they gonna say, "no." then argue (politely) the fact that you are faster and that they probably won't want you sharing every belay!!
if they don't offer in the first place, they are probably newbies!!
cheers
i faced the exact same situation on the grand wall a few weeks ago, where we took the standard way up, and a couple of Quebec people (lol) approached via cruel shoes. well, they beat us cause they were already on the last pitch when we started apron strings, but when we got to the pillar, they were just sitting there!!?
i politely asked if they were going to continue, and they said yes! so i hinted to hurry, cause they were sitting on that cedar tree for like 45 mins!!
so by the time my partner got to the belay, they sarted climbing...
45 mins later, the leader was half way up the pillar
so instead of asking to pass, we bailed! knowing that we would be finishing in the dark...
this is the same french team, whom which took a shat in the back of the chimney at the top of the pillar
it was still there a week later!
so to answer the original question, there is no correct answer! if it's just you and them, then i would ask!! what are they gonna say, "no." then argue (politely) the fact that you are faster and that they probably won't want you sharing every belay!!
if they don't offer in the first place, they are probably newbies!!
cheers
I won't say what climb it was and I'll only add that it was the weekend. But the party that was holding everyone up, took 25min to get through a 5.6 20m section on a route that is 5.9
We were climbing with just the one rope so bailing was not an option and as a result had to descend in the total dark. Lucky, it was the first time I had packed my headlamp on a multi-pitch.
We were climbing with just the one rope so bailing was not an option and as a result had to descend in the total dark. Lucky, it was the first time I had packed my headlamp on a multi-pitch.
i always find it interesting how people behave when they're travelling at a slower pace than someone approaching them from behind/below, based on - for lack of a better term - the position of authority they currently have. when you're walking on the sidewalk and you're about to pass a person, almost as soon as they hear you coming they get out of the way. sure some take a bit longer than others, might throw in a little 'opps', but since they have to look you right in the eyes and have no real way to avoid confrontation, they get out of the way... once those same people get in a car and they're in front of you, travellling at a pace significantly less than yours, they have no problem ignoring you and slowing you down cause they can assume you're not gonna crash into them to get around them. they feel safe in their cage and think they now have a permit to be slow.... but i mean, come on, doesn't something inside your head start to say 'hey, i'm in the way, just cause i'm in a car doesn't mean i can do something i wouldn't do if i wasn't'...
the same goes for high-traffic routes on weekends. remember when you were learning how to drive: did you head straight to the freeway or practice on the side roads. if you know a given route is the equivalent of getting on the freeway yet you're only capable of going 30, you stay off of it and wait for a better time, don't you. if you're gonna take 25 mins to send 5.6, that's ok, but go do it in the smoke bluffs where there isn't 4 parties behind you...
in conclusion, what i'm saying is you shouldn't be in a hurry if you choose to climb a multi-pitch route on a weekend and you shouldn't be causing a traffic jam either...
the same goes for high-traffic routes on weekends. remember when you were learning how to drive: did you head straight to the freeway or practice on the side roads. if you know a given route is the equivalent of getting on the freeway yet you're only capable of going 30, you stay off of it and wait for a better time, don't you. if you're gonna take 25 mins to send 5.6, that's ok, but go do it in the smoke bluffs where there isn't 4 parties behind you...
in conclusion, what i'm saying is you shouldn't be in a hurry if you choose to climb a multi-pitch route on a weekend and you shouldn't be causing a traffic jam either...
Offering from another perspective, as a relative new climber (2yrs). I'm actually not that slow, but I know there are people way faster than me.
If I'm on a climb and there is a party below me, it makes me a bit nervous because I know I have to hurry up. When I hurry, I know that I might make mistakes, so I also get a bit flustered. If someone climbs up to me and I know that we are being really slow, then I would for sure offer them to pass, if only for my own peace of mind. Except if you are a hotshot soloist on a trade route, then I'd make you wait
Just kidding.
But that hasn't happened yet, so I think I'm doing ok
If I'm on a climb and there is a party below me, it makes me a bit nervous because I know I have to hurry up. When I hurry, I know that I might make mistakes, so I also get a bit flustered. If someone climbs up to me and I know that we are being really slow, then I would for sure offer them to pass, if only for my own peace of mind. Except if you are a hotshot soloist on a trade route, then I'd make you wait
Just kidding.But that hasn't happened yet, so I think I'm doing ok
its like passing on the highway.
if it's only you stuck behind that Alberta motorhome, you can burn by it anytime there's an opening.
but, if you catch up to the tail of 5 other cars stuck behind the motorhome, until the motorhome hits a passing lane or a pullout, you aren't passing. too many other cars in the way. same deal on the Crest. if you are the first party behind the slow party you might be able to get by but if you are 3 or 4 parties back you are S.O.L.
hope you brought a good book or had tetris on your cellphone!
if it's only you stuck behind that Alberta motorhome, you can burn by it anytime there's an opening.
but, if you catch up to the tail of 5 other cars stuck behind the motorhome, until the motorhome hits a passing lane or a pullout, you aren't passing. too many other cars in the way. same deal on the Crest. if you are the first party behind the slow party you might be able to get by but if you are 3 or 4 parties back you are S.O.L.
hope you brought a good book or had tetris on your cellphone!
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Squamishmonkey
- Junior Member
- Posts: 86
- Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 3:47 pm
- Location: Squamish
The Split
The most offensive thing in this post is the line ..... "they shat in the pillar"
Passing can be a problem and annoying but shitting in the back of one of the most classic lines in Squamish is totally offensive.
I have been up there twice in the last few weeks and the stench is terrible..large brown streaks all in the back (layback the last move .... avoid the chimney move). I don't know how others feel about this but personally it makes me furious......if everyone took a sh*t where ever they needed one then the pillar would be solid with international sh*t.
If you know these climbers suggest a few options......
1) crap in the outhouses at the base........(it took me weeks to think of that one!)
2) Hold onto it (like everyone else does!)
3) Rap off and read option 1
4) Crap in a plastic bag and take it with you.
5) Eat more fiber (thats just because the guy had the runs)
6) Crap in your own pocket, chalk bag, empty lunch bag, backpack anyting you have with you.
7) Tighten your bung hole and hold onto it.
---------DONT sh*t IN THE PILLAR-----------
Passing can be a problem and annoying but shitting in the back of one of the most classic lines in Squamish is totally offensive.
I have been up there twice in the last few weeks and the stench is terrible..large brown streaks all in the back (layback the last move .... avoid the chimney move). I don't know how others feel about this but personally it makes me furious......if everyone took a sh*t where ever they needed one then the pillar would be solid with international sh*t.
If you know these climbers suggest a few options......
1) crap in the outhouses at the base........(it took me weeks to think of that one!)
2) Hold onto it (like everyone else does!)
3) Rap off and read option 1
4) Crap in a plastic bag and take it with you.
5) Eat more fiber (thats just because the guy had the runs)
6) Crap in your own pocket, chalk bag, empty lunch bag, backpack anyting you have with you.
7) Tighten your bung hole and hold onto it.
---------DONT sh*t IN THE PILLAR-----------
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jwildchild
- I'm New Here
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:20 am
passing on long routes
Yes--passing on long routes is a touchy subject.
My feelings are this:
When climbing on long routes, every climber should be aware of their surroundings incl. other climbers around them. If a party of climbers is climbing faster than you (ie. catching up at every belay and waiting for you to finish your lead) it is courteous to offer them the pass at the first convenient spot. Or, if you forget, and they ask politely--say YES! and have a 5 minute chat with their belayer as their leader cruises by. This way everyone is happy and can get on with meeting their goals for the day.
Feeling pushed from behind can ruin a route, so why hold out and form a road block and create lots of bad feelings ?
If more than one party is backed up--I still think the same applies. Each group next to each other can decide on passability or not. That way, the fastest parties can keep moving their way through the groups--no harm done.
For this to work however, passers need to be honest and confident about their ability to pass a party for real. <A couple of years ago, I felt that a group was moving fast enough behind us to pass us at the top of the split--so we offered, they accepted--and then hours later they had finally flailed far enough along for us to start again. Ugh, maybe they were fast slab climbers, but I sure wish they had been honest about their lack of ability climbing cracks and had declined our pass offer!>
Also, egos need to be in check on the behalf of those being passed. Someone will always have the ability to climb faster than someone else & that doesn't define what quality of rock climber one is---it just displays a preference in style of ascent.
The only person to compare and compete with is yourself. Whether it's beating personal best times or getting through that 5.6 run-out part without shaking. We all enjoy being out on the rock for one reason or another and should support each other.
My feelings are this:
When climbing on long routes, every climber should be aware of their surroundings incl. other climbers around them. If a party of climbers is climbing faster than you (ie. catching up at every belay and waiting for you to finish your lead) it is courteous to offer them the pass at the first convenient spot. Or, if you forget, and they ask politely--say YES! and have a 5 minute chat with their belayer as their leader cruises by. This way everyone is happy and can get on with meeting their goals for the day.
Feeling pushed from behind can ruin a route, so why hold out and form a road block and create lots of bad feelings ?
If more than one party is backed up--I still think the same applies. Each group next to each other can decide on passability or not. That way, the fastest parties can keep moving their way through the groups--no harm done.
For this to work however, passers need to be honest and confident about their ability to pass a party for real. <A couple of years ago, I felt that a group was moving fast enough behind us to pass us at the top of the split--so we offered, they accepted--and then hours later they had finally flailed far enough along for us to start again. Ugh, maybe they were fast slab climbers, but I sure wish they had been honest about their lack of ability climbing cracks and had declined our pass offer!>
Also, egos need to be in check on the behalf of those being passed. Someone will always have the ability to climb faster than someone else & that doesn't define what quality of rock climber one is---it just displays a preference in style of ascent.
The only person to compare and compete with is yourself. Whether it's beating personal best times or getting through that 5.6 run-out part without shaking. We all enjoy being out on the rock for one reason or another and should support each other.
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mcgarnickle
- Full Member
- Posts: 102
- Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:30 pm
- Location: Coquitlam
It really sucks that people are so damn ghetto that they sh*t (literally) where they eat. Everyone climbs that route, many people have picnics while climbing the Grand right in that spot, and then some idiots sh*t there. Sad...
But I have seen this all over the place, not just squamish, and is one of the reasons I almost don't do any trad anymore. If anyone shits half way up Project Grizzly or Vultures Circling, it will stay right in their pants where it belongs.
But I have seen this all over the place, not just squamish, and is one of the reasons I almost don't do any trad anymore. If anyone shits half way up Project Grizzly or Vultures Circling, it will stay right in their pants where it belongs.
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jwildchild
- I'm New Here
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:20 am
shitting on the split or in any crack is totally nauseating and unacceptable.
yuck.
I can understand that sometimes maybe nerves or whatever can bring on uncontrollable bowel movements but c'mon use your brain for a minute.
As mentioned before--use your chalk bag if it's that emergent.
Though, I haven't run into poop so much to cause me to quit climbing cracks ...?huh Tell me where the poopy crags are so I can avoid them.
yuck.
I can understand that sometimes maybe nerves or whatever can bring on uncontrollable bowel movements but c'mon use your brain for a minute.
As mentioned before--use your chalk bag if it's that emergent.
Though, I haven't run into poop so much to cause me to quit climbing cracks ...?huh Tell me where the poopy crags are so I can avoid them.
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