Here we go again (Squamish Gondola proposal)

[BK]

There was just such a business proposal about 15 years ago. I think Frank Bauman was somehow involved. Interesting idea for sure but i think the business proponents like a highway side presence to hook in the tourons. Also, the other side of the river is prime grizzly habitat, not that that necessarily stops anything by Olympics standards.

I'd say a gondola access to the upper shannon creek presents some juicy opportunities for ski touring, winter climbing, summer climbing, hiking, mountain biking, Downhill biking, cross country skiing - much of which is in short supply in this vertically challenged zone. I bet the local guides can see some golden opportunities here. Guides can sure tell you how access to alpine is in short supply here, which I always found a bit ironic considering the "Outdoor Recreation Capital" title.

[squamish climber]

Careful what you wish for, a gondola up the west side of the Squamish River could make the Tantalus a little too tantalizing and put a lot of pressure on quite a pristine alpine area. Maybe save that for the $300 heli ride. I would like to see a footbridge across the Squamish River but I'm a little biased. I see a lot of great rock climbing over there.

Back to the current Gondola proposal, here's a couple of things David Greenfield one of the principals of GroundEffects Development Inc, the developer behind the proposal, told squamishclimbing.com in a telephone interview yesterday. He says the idea is for something like the Grouse Mountain SkyRide but not as big.

When asked if there would be any real estate development in addition to the gondola like the GAS proposal he said "I can say categorically there is no plan to develop anything not associated with the project."

The proposal includes a day lodge with an interpretive centre and restaurant but I take his statement rules out condos at the base and at the top. In fact, Greenfield said that the plan is to obtain a tenure from the provincial government for use of the land at the top gondola station rather than an outright purchase. I believe this could be a positive thing in that there is a public process involved in granting tenure and an opportunity to influence the types of uses that are allowed in a commercial operation.

What would happen to the access on the logging road is another interesting issue. One reason the top station is proposed for a flat spot on the ridge is because this was a landing on the logging road. Construction costs will be lower if equipment could be brought up the logging road. Right now that road is decommissioned. Greenfield says he hopes if the project were to go ahead access would be improved but adds that with a tenure they would not control access on the logging road.

Greenfield also said the proposal includes plans to improve pedestrian access between the Chief and Shannon Falls. And he said he would like to see a walking and cycling path from downtown.

Greenfield told Squamishclimbing.com that that new a trail system could include the Malemute if his idea of water taxi from the Ocean Front development to the base of the Malemute goes ahead. Good luck on getting CN rail cooperation on that but if they do, that could be good news for climbing access to the Lower Malemute.

According to Greenfield, BC Parks has encouraged the company to keep going with its proposal. He says Parks is concerned about over-use of the Backside trail and the damage that is causing. As well, the trail sees a lot of rescues from folks who are not physically up for the hike. Greenfield says BC parks thinks a Gondola could take pressure off the trail and reduce liability.

As for the process, Greenfield says he would like to meet informally with groups over the summer and start the rezoning application in the fall at which time there will be formal public hearings.

I would encourage climbers, the SAS and CASBC to get involved early and stay involved. We don't have to give our support but at least we'll have input and know when to pull out if this proposal heads south. I have not decided one way or the other yet. But I would say that if the community agrees to support this and it goes ahead, I hope mechanized recreation such as ATV's and snowmobiles are not permitted to operate out of the top Gondola station.

An artist rendition of the Gondola line from the base

Source: seatoskygondola.com

[squamish climber]

The Climbers Access Society of BC has emailed its members and posted on its website information about the gondola proposal.

A new proposal for a gondola in Squamish was announced yesterday. The proposed gondola would launch from the gravel pit nestled between the Chief and Shannon Provincial Parks, ascend through BC Parks, and top out at a forested shoulder west of Mt. Habrich. Information about the proposal is available at http://www.seatoskygondola.com/

Representatives from CASBC and Squamish Access Society (SAS) recently met with developer David Greenfield (GroundEffects Development Inc.; http://www.grndfx.ca) to learn more about the proposal. The developer is seeking support from the various interest groups (including CASBC) before deciding whether to move forward.

The gondola would have a number of implications for Squamish residents, the local economy, tourists, climbers, backcountry skiers and other interested groups. CASBC has yet to take a position on the proposal. The CASBC Board is interested in members' views. We are exploring the proposal thoroughly and will be meeting with the developer again in the coming weeks or months.

This is interesting, what kind of support is the developer looking for? And what action/lobbying would the CASBC take once it has taken a position?

Make sure you let the CASBC and SAS know your views on this issue.

[jipstyle]

Where does one access this decommissioned logging road?

[J Mace]

Probably Stawamus road, the road now offers a 2 hour approach to Habrich, not sure how much this gondola would cut off that time to make the ticket $$ worth it.

Speaking of which was there any cost mentioned for the ride? Grouse is 45$ and doesn't realistically open early enough to offer much in the way of approach help.

Did he say it was going to be a Winter operation as well?

Winter climbing on a 9am gondola ride aint gonna do much for you, except to rap into A Scottish Tale. Although most climbers would hike in and climb out and spend the loot on a beer at the top.

Will be interesting to see how this plays out, A casino on one side and a gondola on the other...I would never have guessed!

[Dru]

So this picture makes it look like the gondola will run right through the middle of Olesen Crag and specifically right through the spot on the south side with routes... the Overlook I think it's called?

Are they going to put a pylon right on that rock and wreck a couple crag routes?

[Khoi]

What Erik Frebold, a coworker of mine who has put up some routes in Squamish, has to say:

Goat ridge doesn't strike me as quite as obvious a launch point for hikes as they claim-- quite a bit of alder and bluffs to deal with first. Also it seems a shame to bisect the parkland with a gondola.

Also, their map doesn't actually show... the gondola going anywhere near Goat ridge, despite their claim, unless the two principals, who are both experienced real estate developers, also have something extra in mind for the Shannon Creek valley... road expansion, bridges, houses?

Finally, isn't there quite some new development of climbs going on right now on the bluff they claim has "no known climbing activity"? Quite a breathless document, all in all. 60-80 person-years of construction work eh?

New climbing access to Habrich environs? I don't see climbers rushing to pay $25 for the Grouse gondola to get up the Widowmaker Arete.See More

[Anders Ourom]

An article about the gondola proposal from the Squamish Chief - the local paper, that is.
http://www.squamishchief.com/article/20 ... t-launched

They still won't give up that hoary old nonsense about the Chief being "the world’s second largest granite monolith". It's tiresome, almost reedonkulous. The chamber of commerce or tourism bureau or something seems to have come up with the absurd claim decades ago, and continue to embarrass themselves by repeating it.

The article also refers to "the Squamish Access Society (SAS), the climbing group that voiced strong opposition to the 2004 proposal" - except that the "Squamish Access Society", a local group, didn't exist then, or for a year or two after. The opposition was led by the Climbers' Access Society of B.C., aka the Access Society.

As for the proposal, more information and discussion needed. But one thing about developers - and these are developers - is that it's best to ask the hard questions before anything happens. And if they make any promises, get it in writing.

A parallel discussion, started by Dave: http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum ... mish-Chief

[hesser]

I have to say that my initial reaction to this was NO. But I agree that I should here all the arguments before making a stance. Having said that, my gut is still saying no. As a resident of Squamish and long time climber, I don't think that a gondola will be good for Squamish ie: more hotel rooms rented, restaurants used, fuel purchased, jobs etc. I find it hard to believe that people will come to Squamish to rent a room specifically to use the gondola. I also cringe at the idea of having to pay to access climbing, mtn biking or back country skiing. Afterall, this is what makes Squamish so attractive. In Squamish you can climb, mtn bike and ski for free, you just do it under your own power. Earn your turns!! Your alternative is to go to Whistler if you are unable to access these areas under your own power.

As this weekend has shown, the parking lots are rammed the downtown is busy and many are passing through on their wat up or down from Whis. What happens in the winter or the other months when weather is not ideal? I'll tell you, the Gondola will sit there as large eye sore and be mostly unused. Do you want to go to the top to see...... the clouds and rain? Yes it would get used during the summer months but I just can't see it during the rest of the year and to what cost? Cost of the environmental impact? Taxpayer?

So what will we have achieved by having a gondola in Squamish? The developers will have lined there pockets and will have moved on to the next project. We will have another commercialised tourist trap and finally, people will STILL just be passing through to Whistler. I would hope that more efforts could be put into getting the water front sorted. Lets leave the beauty of Squamish alone. Enough is enough. A casino and a gondola??!! I never thought the day would come...... hopefully it won't. Get involved. I know I will.

Thanks
Mike

[FrankB]

My take on the gondola proposal.

First, contrary to an earlier comment, I had nothing to do with the original Chief gondola proposal; quite the contrary, I was, and am still, not in favour of building a gondola in the vicinity of the Chief or Shannon Falls; the visual aesthetics are just not right.

I am very much in favour of improving access to the mountains- so would really like to see the Shannon Creek road behind the Chief rebuilt- this would provide good access to Habrich, Sky Pilot, Goat Ridge, as well as a number of crags in the area.

I did author a study a few years ago that dealt with the feasibility of building a hand-powered cable car across the Squamish River from near the Railroad Museum. Personally, I still think this is a great idea- it would provide restricted access to the west side of the Squamish River, including the Mt. Murchison area, Castle Rock (Touch-and-Go Towers), crags on the west side of Mt. Lapworth, and the Tantalus and Lake Lovely Water area via Fries Creek. Of course, all this would require new trail construction- starting with an upgrade of the wonderful Begley trail that starts on the west side of the Squamish River across from the railroad museum, and angles up across the east side of Mt. Lapworth to Echo Lake.

[FrankB]

They still won't give up that hoary old nonsense about the Chief being "the world’s second largest granite monolith". It's tiresome, almost reedonkulous. The chamber of commerce or tourism bureau or something seems to have come up with the absurd claim decades ago, and continue to embarrass themselves by repeating it.

Amen. I took it for granite that this myth had died long ago.

[jipstyle]

They still won't give up that hoary old nonsense about the Chief being "the world’s second largest granite monolith". It's tiresome, almost reedonkulous. The chamber of commerce or tourism bureau or something seems to have come up with the absurd claim decades ago, and continue to embarrass themselves by repeating it.

Amen. I took it for granite that this myth had died long ago.

Indeed. It'd be gneiss if they could wipe the slate clean of this nonsense.

[squamish climber]

Welcome Frank Baumann to this discussion. Frank's a geo-technical engineer, longtime Squamish resident and first ascensionist of several Squamish classics. He's the go to guy when I'm booking a guest for CBC on a story on landslides and other geo-tech disasters.

My understanding is that the Shannon Creek FSR was decommissioned because of liability concerns following a tragic accident involving some youths driving off the road. Can anybody confirm that? So maybe those liability issues will remain even if the road is upgraded for gondola construction?

I can see your point about the visual aesthetics not being right for a Gondola. I'm sure there are others who would argue that a Gondola can look quite stunning and have the appearance of an engineering feat eg the Peak to Peak and some of the gondolas in Chamonix.

Related to that is what would a gondola say about Squamish? Would it make Squamish more or less of an outdoor rec capital? Or would a gondola turn Squamish into a one-themed attraction tourist town?

Off topic again, but Frank can you make a new post about Squamish River hand-powered cable car? It would be cool to see a drawing of it. What happened to that study by the way?

[Fre]

I think the argument that people pass through Squamish, on their way to Whistler, is a really strong one. I love Squamish myself, go there often, stay in Squamish etc but most people don't. A gondola is indeed not going to change that. And I fail to see people that are less able or less comfortable on the Chief hike, do hikes to Habrich or Sky Pilot. The first stretch would be bushy, and to get to the interesting bit with the amazing view (Sky Pilot), you have to cross a glacier and do a scramble that maybe 87 year old Becky will still feel comfortable on, but not your average retiree/day trip tourist. People will go up the gondola, look around, and get back down. Takes 2 hours max and then they can get to Whistler and take another lift over there.
That bridge across the Squamish river, now that is interesting and, in my opinion, more valuable for the Squamish community. Ditto with the road behind the Chief. What is indeed the story behind that stretch where several people seem to have driven their cars of the cliff? Or thrown their sofas over the edge? Was that an accident or just some rednecks having fun? Will that ever get cleaned up?

[slopr]

apparently where the cars are in the giant ravine/wash is called chopper alley and it would be unlikely that it ever gets cleaned up. It is likely that there is room for many more cars & sofas in there. Regarding the gondola there would only be a few months of the year when it would be good enough weather for people to want to ride it especially when "the gondola of all gondalas" -the peak to peak in whis was built to be the ultimate gondola over the highest free hanging cable span in NA or maybe the world? The most amazing non skier tourist attraction area ever built. It even has a glass bottom!! The olympics were there and you can get your picture taken with the innukshuk while eating a beaver tail & wearing a roots canada beret on top of the peak of whistler!!!! Minimal walking!! How do you compete with that? Olympics.On the peak with black tusk behind you!!! Unobstructed 360 views of the glaciated coastal range- complete with a second gondola ride on the whistler gondola which is going to be about the same view & thrill as the squamish proposal. Why would people want to do both!!!??? The squamish one would have to be a cheap ride, i'd pay $15 for a ride to within an hours walk of habrich a few times a year, maybe $20. How many tourists would really want to do both?? there would be a few but......don't have an opinion yet if i like the idea or not i just think it will be unable to self-sustain and not be consistently busy enough to last. If it does not fail in being developed it is quite likely to fail upon construction & completion. Gondolas are not cheap. Who can compete with an olympic innukshuk??! Bad business plan. Something on the other side of the river however is more likely to be an investment for squamish as people would go downtown.