access issue at senior center
access issue at senior center
Last night, walking down the road to the crag, we were stopped by Steve Myers, a local resident. He was very nice to us, but speaking for the local residents, he voiced some valid concerns and frustration.
The road there is a private road, built by the people that live in this community. A while ago there was an accident on the road involving a non-resident, resulting in a lawsuit by the district against this small private neighborhood, and a requirement that they obtain insurance for this road. They had a great deal of trouble finding an insurance company that would even cover it, and the one that they did find charges them, as Steve put it, a small luxury car per year. Any other accidents on this road will lead to either much higher premiums, or a loss of coverage all together, which in turn leads to the district shutting down their private road. They have attempted to keep the gate locked, but someone among their residents anonymously disagrees with this approach and repeatedly cuts the lock off and throws it away.
Anyway, the point is that we can't be using that road anymore. Steve was there for the initial road building, and suggests that a trail from the apex of the hairpin turn above the gates would follow the ridge and ultimately be a shorter walk in to the crag. It won't be hard to do - as Steve suggested , a group of us with a GPS, some flagging and cutting implements could get a trail started in very little time. Anyone that is willing to help can post here with some suggestions, and we should remedy this situation within the next week or two.
The road there is a private road, built by the people that live in this community. A while ago there was an accident on the road involving a non-resident, resulting in a lawsuit by the district against this small private neighborhood, and a requirement that they obtain insurance for this road. They had a great deal of trouble finding an insurance company that would even cover it, and the one that they did find charges them, as Steve put it, a small luxury car per year. Any other accidents on this road will lead to either much higher premiums, or a loss of coverage all together, which in turn leads to the district shutting down their private road. They have attempted to keep the gate locked, but someone among their residents anonymously disagrees with this approach and repeatedly cuts the lock off and throws it away.
Anyway, the point is that we can't be using that road anymore. Steve was there for the initial road building, and suggests that a trail from the apex of the hairpin turn above the gates would follow the ridge and ultimately be a shorter walk in to the crag. It won't be hard to do - as Steve suggested , a group of us with a GPS, some flagging and cutting implements could get a trail started in very little time. Anyone that is willing to help can post here with some suggestions, and we should remedy this situation within the next week or two.
It was through this website that I obtained directions to the senior center, directions that led me to trespassing and exacerbating a sensitive access issue. At the very least, I think someone here really should amend the directions before the situation gets worse. I don't mind taking care of trail building myself, trail building in the district of North Van has a strong precedent, and is a no-brainer in this instance. Do any of you know who at CASBC would best to consult?
I wouldn't be slamming the website, people have been going down that road for years, being that it is the only access point. The signs on the road clearly say private road etc, so don't try to blame the website for your ignorance on the situation. Having said all that, go to http://casbc.bivouac.com, there will be contact info there. Or, from the latest CASBC newsletterSenior Centre (Deep Cove): There is a need for some trail work at this North Vancouver crag. If you can help, call Rolf Rybak at (604) 980-4186, or drybak@shaw.ca.
My friends and i built the routes at Senior Centre and have debated to death the access issues there. The fire lane access road is North Van District property leased to the residents. The crag is on DNV recreational / green zoned land. I am a long time North Van resident and buisness owner and have on more than one occassion delt with district staff. In my experience North Van residents are very Not In My Back Yard. District staff and council usually respond to issues by pleasing the most vocal VOTING residents. An access trail will probably solve current problems and we would appreciate any help. We have hiked out thru the woods and estimate this will double access time. That is the potential problem. People are lazy and inevitably will use the road. Currently the district is completing an alpine study to look at recreational use in the Seymour Deep Cove area. This is a public imput form and would be a good opportunity to lobby for public PEDESTRIAN access on leased fire lanes to recreation / park land. I would appreciate any help in building a trail and lobbying.
Please contact me at 802-5951 if you can help at trail building and we can set a date. There may be bylaws governing trail building , therefore a low profile may be prudent. Thanks for any help or imput , and lets not turn this into a political , ethical debate and pissing match. I just love to climb and hope we can keep this area open for everyone's enjoyment.
Cheers Rolf
Please contact me at 802-5951 if you can help at trail building and we can set a date. There may be bylaws governing trail building , therefore a low profile may be prudent. Thanks for any help or imput , and lets not turn this into a political , ethical debate and pissing match. I just love to climb and hope we can keep this area open for everyone's enjoyment.
Cheers Rolf
I've heard quite a few things about the access to senior centre. Some climbers have even told me that they had been chased by local with pretty big dogs. So we did a little bit of research and indeed, the road is a private road, BUT it's constructed mostly on crown land.
I don't know too much about these things, but it seems that things could be kind of tricky since the road might belong to the residents, but not the land where it goes through.
So I guess if you hover just above the road you should be ok (you'll need one of those cool Back To the Future skates for it though) OR I would think if you walk right next to the road and not step on the pavement you should be alright.
It's a pretty tough balance, and of course you don't want to piss of the locals. Building an access from somewhere else would be nice. But if it's still more convenient to go through the road, I might be scared that in the long run convenience might win over pissing a local off or not.
G
I don't know too much about these things, but it seems that things could be kind of tricky since the road might belong to the residents, but not the land where it goes through.
So I guess if you hover just above the road you should be ok (you'll need one of those cool Back To the Future skates for it though) OR I would think if you walk right next to the road and not step on the pavement you should be alright.
It's a pretty tough balance, and of course you don't want to piss of the locals. Building an access from somewhere else would be nice. But if it's still more convenient to go through the road, I might be scared that in the long run convenience might win over pissing a local off or not.
G
From the latest CABC newsletter:
Senior Centre (North Vancouver)
This area is in the District of North Vancouver, below the first big corner on the Mt. Seymour Provincial Park road. Access has historically been from below via private roads, known as fire lanes 7 and 8. These are owned by the District, but were leased to the residents' association, which then constructed the roads. Residents on these roads have asked that climbers do not park on them or use them for access to the Senior Centre. Climbers were recently stopped by a resident, who explained that a few years ago an accident occurred on the road, involving a non-resident. This led to a lawsuit by the District against the residents' association, which then had to obtain liability insurance at considerable cost and difficulty. The residents are concerned that any further incident could result in loss of the insurance, or a big increase in rates. The resident suggested that climbers build a trail from the switchback on Indian River Road to the Senior Centre. This is being considered; please contact Rolf Rybak if you are interested or able to help - drybak(at)shaw.ca or (604) 980-4186. However, the parking area off Indian River Road is being filled with rock from construction further down, which may lead to parking limitations.
Senior Centre (North Vancouver)
This area is in the District of North Vancouver, below the first big corner on the Mt. Seymour Provincial Park road. Access has historically been from below via private roads, known as fire lanes 7 and 8. These are owned by the District, but were leased to the residents' association, which then constructed the roads. Residents on these roads have asked that climbers do not park on them or use them for access to the Senior Centre. Climbers were recently stopped by a resident, who explained that a few years ago an accident occurred on the road, involving a non-resident. This led to a lawsuit by the District against the residents' association, which then had to obtain liability insurance at considerable cost and difficulty. The residents are concerned that any further incident could result in loss of the insurance, or a big increase in rates. The resident suggested that climbers build a trail from the switchback on Indian River Road to the Senior Centre. This is being considered; please contact Rolf Rybak if you are interested or able to help - drybak(at)shaw.ca or (604) 980-4186. However, the parking area off Indian River Road is being filled with rock from construction further down, which may lead to parking limitations.
Any new info on this subject????
Does anybody know anything more about the access issue with the Senior Center. ??? If so let us know????? 
Re: Any new info on this subject????
PAW wrote:Does anybody know anything more about the access issue with the Senior Center. ??? If so let us know?????
Sorry for taking so long to get going on this issue. I recently met with Neil Carlisle (Property Valuator / Negotiator for DNV) to clarify the legal status of Sasamat Lane / Firelane 8 which is the access road that passes by the Senior Centre. This district property was leased to the residents who built the road for local access ( early 90's). Neil could not clearly define if the road was or was not public access. District maps indicate that there may be DNV right of ways off Firelane 8 to the waterfront at Indian Arm . I will be meeting with the Engineering Dept. re the property and road designations and if there are public waterfront accesses.
I will also be requesting a copy of the lease agreement from the DNV Freedom of Information Officer. I doubt if any provisions for recreational access were included or excluded. On a provincial level , legislation was passes a few years ago to exclude property owners from liability from recreationalists crossing their property. (snowmobilers, atvs etc). If anyone has more info on this legilation please let me know.
Re: The comments quoted from Mr. Meyers the local resident.
My point of view is less sympathetic. I also own wilderness property and have liability insurance on it and my road. That is just a fair cost for the right to own remote property. We all carry liability on our dwellings and vehicles and are also at the mercy of insurance companys. Locals at Sasamat have the benifits of vehicular access , fire and emergency vehicle deployment, all while maintaining their privacy. They are benefiting from all the DNV ammenities but want to restrict access to public land within and around their community . Fair trade?
I understand that cars parked on the fire lane could retrict emergency vehicle access and accept that argument. However i feel pedestrian access to public lands is a right not a privlage defined by a few. I will continue to walk in on the road and will maintain my right to do so. If locals stop me i will state my position and continue.
I* have also been approached by a local who has been threatening and would't speak to me except to swear at me. If you are threatened by him , I would advise you to take his plate number and report him to the RCMP , i will.
The access to this area is definetly no clearly defined , your voice is as valid as the locals. My intent isn't to be antagonistic but i don't intend to be a door mat either. I hope further meetings with DNV staff will help clarify matters. Look forward to hearing other views.
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