The lost dynamic lead belay

[Anders Ourom]

And here I thought this thread was about the fine, lost art of the hip belay - standing or sitting. Which, like body and carabiner brake rappels, is still worth learning. Allows the climb/rappel to go on, even if you've lost or forgotten your device. Guaranteed low impact, and perhaps even dynamic.

Have a look at "Belaying the Leader", "Basic Rockcraft", or early editions of "Freedom of the Hills". The hip belay worked well, and was the accepted method from the 1940s through the 1980s. It took a little practice, and may not have been quite as secure as use of belay devices. Though the number of people getting dropped by their belayers these days makes me wonder.

I still occasionally use a hip belay, when circumstances are appropriate. To the possible consternation of any unschooled onlookers, though that's not my problem. They probably think I'm a newbie, and wonder if they should say something before someone gets hurt.

Anders

[phoenix]

Anders, your post brings back memories.

While I may be a rookie climber, I did first try climbing back in the late 80's, and I did a whole lot of repelling back then too. Hip belays, body rapells ... hmmmm ... I don't remember any of them being quite as comfortable as working an atc.

I only recall using a hip belay for top-ropiong, and were always anchored - making it a static belay. I have never seen anybody use a hip belay unanchored. Do you use it for anything other than single pitch, and are you using the hip-belay unanchored?

Oh Anders, you will know if they think you're a newbie! While most of the expereinced climbers are happy to ignor a newbies existence, there are those few that do not accept our (rookies) presense at the crags at all - whether we are climbing safely or not. We do get the odd derisive comments and laughs about our formailized buddy safety checks and helmet use for the 5.8 routes that we are proud to be able to climb.

[ras]

the thining is probably along the lines of rope wear and stupid people doing stupid things. Yes you guys are all sensible but new lead climbers may not be. That means more accidents, more problems, and higher insurance rates and higher membership rates. if I owned a gym I sure as hell wouldn't want everyone with a lead card taking whippers on my rope. Would you?

1 - how does one arrange to take a whipper on a gym route with a bolt every 4 feet? i'm not suggesting skipping bolts!

2 - who said i want to fall on their rope? they don't let me take falls on my rope either, i have to use their rope, so thats not much of an argument

3 - i've climbed in 8 gyms in 5 cities, the 2 cliffhangers are the only ones with the "no deliberate falls" rule

its their business, but if you sport climb, you are going to fall, and falling and catching are skills learned through practice. i learned in a controlled environment, at a gym that seemed to run a good business without making this rule. most people don't like to fall under any circumstances, so its not like it was an everyday affair. and note the thread was started about watching people climb who had the "don't let go of the rope" part of catching right, but not the subtleties.

anhow, thats my two bits, now i'm back to reading the cat lake topo. had a good time out their wkend before last, hopin to get back soon!