Who's been cutting trees?

[tattooed_climber]

ok...I’m right p*ssed off now.....who's been taking the 'ol gas axe to ALL the trees in penny lane and at zombie roof.....lots of areas in the bluffs have been thinned out......the trails are great, but there is NO f*cking reason to start hacking trees..

Gardening is one thing, but taking a chain saw to big trees is f*ckin retarded, in August everyone is gonna be sun f*cked..(try pulling that sh*t off in Skaha)......I’ve heard about this Kevin McLean "open air experience" BS...comon, trees and nature are all apart of Squamish....if you want "open air," man up and climb the local alpine or travel (the yam, yose, Jtree, bishop, smith, etc etc etc)...and what’s this about belay trees being hack i've heard....I personally like the shade when belaying or doing approaches

Retarded...pure retarded

[PAW]

heading up in half and hour. I'll check sh*t out. Sounds crazy.

[cutty]

On Saturday just after noon I saw a few people at the parking lot with dirt bikes getting their stuff together, and one of them was carrying a chainsaw on his back.

[tattooed_climber]

On Saturday just after noon I saw a few people at the parking lot with dirt bikes getting their stuff together, and one of them was carrying a chainsaw on his back.

ya, i saw some of those trial-moto-A$$%$#^@ saturday...some shaven-head emo looking type wanker...no gas-axe....if i did saw one, i would have kicked his a$%...

i'm shocked that this is happening on the chief too...its a prov. park...its illegal....ONLY IF ITS A SAFELY ISSUE, can it be done.....same rule should apply to the bluffs...

[tangledfeet]

I hate trees, and believe in an open air policy. Left to long the climbs will remain saturated forever. I know this will make you mad but selected prunning helps the crags.

Not a fan of aid climbing or climbing wet rock.

P.S. I did not cut them but I am not against it if some thought is put into it.

[tattooed_climber]

gardening, yes.....but hacking belay trees and trees at the base of a climb, no

[monkeyboy]

I love the idea of riding my dirt bike up to the climbs at the smoke bluffs...Wait a minute, I'm not a trad climber. I say we make a track there!

[PAW]

So from my take today(which was an awesome day for cragging with no one around and lots of dry rock, sunscreen was applied), lots of good sh*t has gone into the Bluffs in the last little while. Trails are in awesome shape, benches at the base of some climbs. It's really starting to look like a crag.

As for tree cutting in our walk today I didn't see anything wrong with any of the tree removals, that said I wasn't where tattooed climber was.

Anyhow the comment I would make to people cutting trees would be,

The bluffs are better then any other cragging area we west coasters drive to. The trees provide shade at the base of the climbs unlike smith, Leavenworth, skaha or jtree. These trees provide an ambience where you really can feel solitude away from other climbers, relax and enjoy the day. Cut branches back that invade, and take down widow makers. But don't remove healthy trees completely, its squamish everything is in. And on lots of climbs you just have to climb through it.

[PAW]

one thing I forgot to mention.

As we were walking past neat and cool, one of the finest sights ever.

Blonde in chaps and a bikini top riding a large Black Stallion

Wow, focus was hard the rest of the day.

[timtall]

On Saturday just after noon I saw a few people at the parking lot with dirt bikes getting their stuff together, and one of them was carrying a chainsaw on his back.

(œ)

The bikes you saw in the smoke bluffs parking lot were trials bikes, although they do have motors they are very different from what you think of as "dirt bikes". Trials bikes are quiet, slow and very gentle on the trails. We ride up trails that most people wouldn't ride down on a mountain bike. Trials motorcyclists are responsible for building almost all of the mountain bike trails in the area around the smoke bluffs and in the crumpit woods area of valleycliff. We have recently formed an association (Howe Sound Trials Riders Association) in order to represent ourselves alongside other trail users in the area. We try very hard to distinguish ourselves from the "dirtbikers". Once you know the differnce it is easy to tell which type of bike it is at a glance. Trials bikes have no seats and are closer in shape to a downhill mountain bike than a motorcycle. If you see us in the parking lot, stop by and have a look.

As for the guy with the chain saw on the bike, he was heading up to do some trail maintenance. I know for a fact he wasn't cutting trees in the climbing area.

Several riders in the area are climbers, myself included. As far as the tree cutting thing goes, some trees needed a trim, some needed to be cut down. In the spring and fall less trees is better, in the summer more are better. If you are out there doing trail maintenance in the area feel free to complain, if not, be thankful for all the work that goes into the area and keep the comments constructive.

[tattooed_climber]

I have a question for you. Why is it OK for climbers to create trails, scrub of moss, leave their trash, add chalk and through mass use damage the environment in the smoke bluffs BUT NOT OK for dirt bikers to remove trees so they can enjoy the area for their recreational sport. Not saying I agree with it just wanted to hear your comments.

As I state again...I’m a steel worker...Please forgive my language...Believe me, it’s much worst in my shop, take it all with a grain of salt (wtf ever that means, ahem, I’m joking.) Get to know me and I’m all about the shenanigans.

And PAW, I’m glad you agree with me (we got to get out and climb, I’m free next weekend, though I may have to bolt someone’s project in an undisclosed location)

Now, to meingh:
I believe in LNT (leave no trace)...trails OK- the idea behind trails is to minimize impact and stop erosion, aka only what’s necessary.......the same principal applies to scrubbing moss. Removing moss that is crucial to perform the climb......trash-NO....I’ve never said/supported about leaving trash, in fact, I pick up other people's trash. [I don't know how many cans of Drain-O I've hauled down...If someone what's to tell me what people are using that for, it would be cool...to kill the moss or what???).. I even carry a film canister to put my cigarette butts in (though I’m now trying to get off that crap again)............

These are my ethics, and they translate over to everything about climbing...from bolting, to anything...and dude, chalk??? It's Squamish, the rain will get it…Meh I say!

With LNT said, I can't see why trees are need to be cut and killed...if you really, really, really have to [and there's no other way], the branches can be pruned...when I did some route cleaning in Skaha and my two areas I’m sort of developing, all the trees on the route I’ve tied all the branches back so later, when they grow, it will not effect the climb.

As for trees chopped on route, the only dangerous trees I’ve come across were dead stumps that someone killed...lots of trees are bomber and are used as belay stations. But hey, do what’s only necessary and use your head.

For route cleaning, dirt in the cracks and crap in/on the route, get it out if it’s a safety issue or affects the holds

And dude, Tim, I do know the difference between trials and moto (I had a few friends from back in high school whom did the peddling kind and I do see the skill in the sport). Sorry if I came off strong, my words always come off like that (I need a disclaimer ). I’ve (how you say) crossed paths (bad pun I know) with a few riders and it wasn't so pleasant….They where very ignorant, and sorry to bunch you all in with them. I’ll support self-propelled sports over anything with a motor. Wow, guess I’m a Green Peace Hippy, whatever.

If you want to develop your own area for trials riding, all the power to you. I feel that its like a first-come-first-serve type deal....I don't want to give off a vibe that I’m discriminating or anything, but there's LOTS of virgin stuff out there.

Trees are all apart of BC, get use to it. If you don’t want to deal with them while your climbing, or riding, or running, or playing silly bugger, go move to Oregon or Alberta or where ever.

I’m not an elitist, I’m being practical. Am I an Eh-Hole? Yes I am. If you think I’m an idiot, lets talk about it over coffee or a climb or whatever.

This is the fecked up thing about climbing, the MASSIVE variety of opinions and ethics. All which are unwritten and only word of mouth. But I Guess that’s one of the cool things about climbing.

[jstone]

I agree there is a fine line between gardening and hacking the s$%t out of the crag, but anywhere that has the traffic of the bluffs is bound to generate problems, it's a trad park anyway you look at it. I say forget it and come up north to put up some F.A.s on good stone, and bring your saw, you'll need it.

[5.4 Slayer]

Ummm, as for the Drain-o thing, apparently it can be used when making crystal meth.