Manslaughter charges filed in Tito's death

[rolfr]

http://www.dpmclimbing.com/articles/vie ... s-accident

So opinions? Could the same charges be filed under our Canadian judicial system? Then it begs the question, " What would happen if there was an accident caused by a faulty fixed draw that caused a fatality?"

Anders, weigh in on this one.

[jred]

Gross negligence manslaughter can be caused by an act or omission as far as I know so they do have a case possibly. A horrible, sad story no matter the outcome.

[scrubber]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't "gross negligence" imply there was intent to harm? Negligence causing manslaughter would be more likely.

As usual, anyone within arms reach of those draws during their manufacture, sale, and use will be named in the suit. The courts then have to decide if any of the defendants are truly at fault and apportion out the blame if more than one of them is found responsible.

A horribly sad accident that could have been prevented on multiple levels. My sincerest condolences to his family and friends.

K

[tobyfk]

Good explanation by an Italian here:
http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php ... #msg418005

[Drew]

Italy is the same country that jailed geologists for not predicting an earthquake.

[scrubber]

Thanks for that reference Toby. Much easier to see why things are unfolding how they are.

K

[BK]

Gross negligence is not intent to harm, more like a negligence to prevent harm through gross dereliction of duty. As I understand it anyway. Waivers protect you from negligence but not gross negligence, such as guiding while drunk or something. I'm sure Anders could clarify better.

Somebody bungled although I doubt the retailer or manufacturer is it but you ever know with the Italian courts. Remember they fingered a bunch of volcanologists for failing to predict an eruption adequately.

[jred]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_negligence It seems like this could possibly describe what went happened.

[jstod]

http://www.dpmclimbing.com/articles/vie ... s-accident

So opinions? Could the same charges be filed under our Canadian judicial system? Then it begs the question, " What would happen if there was an accident caused by a faulty fixed draw that caused a fatality?"

Anders, weigh in on this one.

In speaking with several lawyer friends, it sounds very unlikely that a route developer could be charged with criminal manslaughter in the event of a faulty fixed draw under the Canadian judicial system. To be criminal, there would need to be either an intent to injure or one would have had to have broken a law by placing fixed draws. If it's not illegal to bolt and fix draws, and you haven't intended to cause harm, then you shouldn't be criminally liable at least.

Of course, the possibility of a civil suit being brought against you will always exist…but civil suits can be filed against almost anyone for anything.

That's my interpretation of what I've been told at least…

Julian

[mr_staggerlee]

personalis responsibilitatus uber alles

[harihari]

There was a US case in 2006 or so like this--

Woman in Salt Lake advertises for climbing partner with experience. Meets dude who has gear and has set up topropes. They go toproping. Dude runs rope directly over a piece of webbing tied between two bolts. Woman takes a massive screamer and gets majorly f**ked up. Guy claims all he knew about climbing safety was from rigging anchors for displays of merchandise at car shows etc. The woman sued the guy-- but I dunno how it came out. Anybody heard about this one?

Chris