Poll: Sea to Sky Gondola Proposal

[squamish climber]

I'll keep this running poll at the top for a while. If you have a comment about the poll question or wish to add one let me know asap.

We've been here before but the new proponents say this time around it will be different. The base station will be at the same gravel pit between the Chief and Shannon Falls. But instead of topping out on the second summit of the Chief, this gondola would head up the ridge towards Mt. Habrich (a short steep valley over) and end 200 meters above the Chief. The gondola would still pass through Stawamus Chief Provincial Park.

source: seatoskygondola.com

Sources of information:
seatoskygondola.com
squamishclimbing.com thread: Here we go again....]
Climbers access society of BC
squamishaccess.ca/

[squamish climber]

Kind of interesting. The poll on the Chief website shows opinion on the gondola proposal is running roughly opposite to this one. With 44 percent fully supportive and 26 percent generally supportive but with questions. Chief poll url: http://www.squamishchief.com/apps/pbcs. ... y=SQUAMISH

Of course both polls are not scientific and only suggest a trend in public opinion.

[smallman]

I would suggest the difference in poll results exists because the Squamish Chief's poll's respondents are actual Squamites who see a decline in the local economy whereas the majority of this poll's respondents are from outside Squamish who only view Squamish as a personal playground.

[squamish climber]

Okay now that more details of the proposal are becoming clear including the news the proposal requires a 20 metre by one kilometre corridor to be removed from the Class A park, I'd like to see more people express their opinion on the poll. The results of the poll do not seem to agree with the sentiment out there, but I could be wrong.

[Anders Ourom]

Some interesting numbers, as of today:

FOSC E-Petition
ipetitions dot com /petition/squamishchief/signatures

- 303 have signed the petition, including some couples, so probably 310 or 315 total.
- 40 who provide names, and five anonymous (45 of the total), currently live in the Squamish area, and a few more did in the past.
- Many also provide comments.

Click on "signatures" to see names and comments.

FaceBook

- 111 have "liked" the FOSC page http://www.facebook.com/FriendsoftheSquamishChief - set up in April
- 146 have "liked" the proponents page (established a year or so ago)

Paper Petitions

There are paper petitions out in Squamish and Vancouver. We have 80 confirmed signatures, and there are probably more.

Please sign the petition, and "friend" FOSC, asap!

Squamish Climbing

71% of the 70 or so who've signed an (old) petition on the Squamish Climbing website are entirely opposed to the gondola, and other have reservations: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3406

None of this is conclusive, and no doubt there's some overlap. Still, it indicates that there is considerable public opposition to the proposal, in Squamish and elsewhere.

Parks Elders' Council

The Elders Council for Parks in B.C. should be issuing its report on the process, in context of government policy and legal requirements, on Friday. http://elderscouncilforparks.org/

[jessejames]

In my opinion, the gondola represents continued criminality against Canadian forests. The only reason this abomination is being constructed is to bleed money from fat slobs in Vancouver who would need a heart-attack evac if they waddled up the chief trail. Squamish and the BC government continues to sell Canadian natural resources to the highest bidder, regardless of the ghastly environmental impact caused by these projects. Even more troubling is the feckless celebration of the logging industry during 'Squamish Days'. A casual cruise down Mamquam forest road should set off alarm bells in anyone who gives half a sh*t about our forests ...

But, wait. The real problem in Squamish isn't the logging. No! Or the Gondola. No! It's the dirtbag climbers who dare to poop in the woods on Mamquam road .. those are the guys who deserve a flogging, right?

Hey Squamish, get your priorities straight.

Jesse James

[BK]

OK I'll bite.

About the gondola..... wether you love it or hate it, what exactly do you have against the idea of fleecing fat slobs from Vancouver?

But really I have to protest your characterization of the forestry industry. You see the problem is, if you can't stand the thought of taking money from fat slobs, then its going to have to come from somewhere. Forestry has a checkered past here, much good economically and much bad environmentally - just ask the salmon. One thing is for sure however, it is a mere shadow of what it was yet it still provides a viable and sustainable career for many who live here. wether your poor anguished sensibilities can bear the sight of the odd cut block or not, no one can dispute that the ecological effects of todays activity is light years ahead of what was going on just twenty years ago. If you don't like it now your head would have exploded then.

Still, some people just can't stand rubbing elbows with the riff raff down at the Loggers sports days every july, but that's why we built you a Zephyrs. Just remember that those folks provide the wood for your house, built this town from the ground up and love it more than you. Another thing to consider is that if that Gondola works out and the Fat slobs belly up as planned, it is likely that the entire Shannon creek drainage will not get logged again, as is scheduled.

Yup we can't have it all our way but we can certainly shoot for the best middle ground.

And about the squatters - yeah for the most part they are small potatoes as far as epic controversies go, and if they had just run a tighter ship it probably would have stayed that way.

[live_vertically]

As a long term Squamish Local, climber and business owner I would like to say that I am in complete favour of the Gondola. I want our town to become a Natural Attraction not just for the fit and able outdoor enthusiasts but for everyone. I can't wait to bring my Parents and Grandparents to the top of the Line where they can finally experience what I have been telling them about for years!

I think the Gondola project will really provide a sense of appreciation of the natural environment for people who otherwise may never experience it.

If anything I think that the existence of the Gondola will actually help to foster environmental stewardship in Squamish. The area where it was built is all 2nd growth forest that will probably be logged again one day... but just maybe this project may help keep that area unlogged for future generations if it becomes a cherished landscape to more people.

As far as the economic impacts... I don't know what they will be, but I think this is a step in the right direction to making Squamish a Destination for all, and creating more opportunities for business and job creation.

[jessejames]

As a long term Squamish Local, climber and business owner I would like to say that I am in complete favour of the Gondola. I want our town to become a Natural Attraction not just for the fit and able outdoor enthusiasts but for everyone. I can't wait to bring my Parents and Grandparents to the top of the Line where they can finally experience what I have been telling them about for years!

I think the Gondola project will really provide a sense of appreciation of the natural environment for people who otherwise may never experience it.

If anything I think that the existence of the Gondola will actually help to foster environmental stewardship in Squamish. The area where it was built is all 2nd growth forest that will probably be logged again one day... but just maybe this project may help keep that area unlogged for future generations if it becomes a cherished landscape to more people.

As far as the economic impacts... I don't know what they will be, but I think this is a step in the right direction to making Squamish a Destination for all, and creating more opportunities for business and job creation.

The entire Sky Pilot backcountry and Mt Habrich will be ruined by this stupid contraption. Fat slobs who think 'Burgers and Fries' is a concession stand will be waddling up to the Stadium glacier.

I don't see how any climber can support the total obliteration of a pristine climbing environment behind the chief. I'm sure if you had it your way, and if it was good for the Squamish 'economy', you'd plop a resort on the top of Garibaldi too.

Sickening!

[BK]

Jesse James, you continue to come across as a bit of a meth head. For starters you're a bit more than a day late / dollar short in your opposition. Anders could have used your outrageous hyperbole a couple of years ago. Whats with the freak out now?

The least you could do is make sense. Those logging roads are there for a reason. To log. Upper Shannon creek has not been "pristine" for some time now. All that 2nd growth is coming up for a fresh cut some day. Do you think a hand full of mountain bikers and climbers has a big hope in stopping it?

You seem to be particularly annoyed by "fat slobs". First of all, some of those fat slobs are my friends and family (to a certain extent, myself) and I am looking forward to telling you this to your face some day. Also, there is at least some chance that some of that blub and diabetes etc might get worn off on a little hike on all those excellent trails that are likely to sprout up like mushrooms after all the construction is over.

anyway, I'm sure even Anders sees the sense in working with the will of the community, now that that has been established. There is really no need to provoke or antagonize people who are now positioned to actually provide us with new recreational amenities and an improved access. Unless your whole motivation is too provoke and antagonize?

Thats cool, just be honest about it. Why do you think I'm going to all this effort to state the obvious? Why to provoke and antagonize you of course!

[jessejames]

Yours is the same idiotic mentality that led to Britannia Mine being the biggest source of heavy metal pollution in North America, if not the world. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britannia_ ... h_Columbia)

But the mine was great for the economy Britannia Beach, at least for awhile - and that's all the matters, right?

[BK]

That is a fairly fantastical leap you are making in equating the environmental effect of the Britannia / Anaconda Mine with a gondola. This analogy of yours again illustrates how we can only guess that your grasp of reality is influenced somehow by some low grade mind altering chemicals. If you don't want us to draw such a conclusion you better spend a little time and thought explaining your logic.

I know you are not the only person who dosn't like the idea of that hill side having some view upsetting wires installed on it. It turns out that neither do I. I think it looks fine the way it is. Problem is, that is just not a good enough reason to say no to the gondola as that is the only negative and there are a ton of positives. I won't list em all but lets just say the environmental impact is about as negligible as one could hope for such a development. If that impact is too great for you then no development is acceptable. None. Zip. Zero. Do you live in a cave? How do you recharge your IPod? Do you twist your own hemp rope? When you flick the switch on your cave wall does the light come on? Do you like it when it does that? Me too.

Even your apparent revulsion for the existence of the Britannia mine is simple minded. Sure, undoubtably greed and stupid mindedness played no small part but what else is new. That thing produced a fair bit of copper, maybe some of it now installed in your cave wall. Even fifty odd years ago the river was thriving and the sound was full of salmon and nobody had a clue that as soon as the mine shut down the pumps stopped running and the Acid drain rock started poisoning the creek. It was straight up ignorance not malicious intent that wrecked the sound.

Maybe that is what you mean by "idiotic mentality" but even so I fail to see how the same threat applies with a gondola zooming up to a restaurant in an old cut block. If its not crack or meth then it must be straight up revulsion for Vancouver fat slobs that turns your crank, which I find just a bit pathetic.

But I'm sure I'm wrong. Go ahead. Explain.

[bennygroundh20]

Jesse, for someone who's not from Squamish, doesn't work here, and provides nothing but egocentric and belittling remarks to the treasured route setters and local heros of this town (might i sight perry beckham) You sure have some strong opinions on what is good and bad for this town. That being said you are entitled to them no matter how offending they are (which by the way are terribly offending).

But having said that why do you? And as BK mentioned before, Squamish has been a resource town for well over half the century and suddenly were making a shift to tourism, how is this a BAD thing? I think this project is for the better, It's going to provide better access to Habrich/Sky pilot area which in turn will most likely result in more routes being set, and options for you to either praise or criticize; lets hope the prior.

In conclusion, for people who LIVE in Squamish, WORK in Squamish or want to TRAVEL to Squamish this is no doubt an economical, and environmental benefit in the long run. It would be great to see the proposed logging of that area halted by a simple gondola for some people to enjoy the fantastic view it has to offer.

[Anders Ourom]

"benny": Do you have any personal, business, financial or other connection with the developers? Do you live in Squamish, and if so how long have you lived there?

You're presumably aware that the Stawamus Chief and Shannon Falls are provincial parks, with national if not international attributes? Given this, why do you say that their fate should have been determined solely by local interests and processes? In geographic and economic terms, Squamish now is a suburb towards the northern end of the greater Lower Mainland, extending from Bellingham to Nanaimo to Whistler to Chilliwack - a suburb with a distinct, proud identity. The number of climbers who've moved to Squamish, but who work in Vancouver, speaks for itself.

Had the Ministry of the Environment, or TLC, done their jobs properly we of course wouldn't be in this mess.

As for your beliefs about the supposed merits of the gondola project - well, those who support it have made their bed, and will now have to lie in it. Don't be too surprised if it's much less comfortable than you imagined.

[bennygroundh20]

Hey Anders, No connection between me and the developers, Just an observer throwing in my 2 cents as a climber and citizen of Squamish. Lived in Squamish on and off since 2008 raised on the North shore frequently visiting the place since i can remember for work, school and recreation.