Sunset Strip horror show

[jessejames]

I hate to criticize route-setters, as they usually do a phenomenal job and devote a huge amount of time and resources in building routes that most of us love (thanks Jeremy Frimer for all your hard labor ...)

HOWEVER .. some people are just plain stupid, and would be better off bolting single-pitch sport. I recently climbed the first two pitches of Sunset Strip. On the second pitch, the first bolt is a solid 3 meters above the belay, with no protection possible and a very cruxy several moves with a dangerous clip, risking a factor-2 fall and/or decking on a ledge. This pitch is guaranteed to keep Perry Beckham busy. I rapped, not wanting to see the rest of the route at that time.

Then yesterday I climbed Millenium Falcon, part of which was a godawful mess thanks to the route-cleaning on Sunset Strip. That's understandable. Particularly troubling, however, was the top of the 11a bolted pitch. The trees were all gone! Those trees provided protection AND a belay for the top of the pitch. Instead, I found unprotectable dust-covered slab. I normally don't climb the pitch with any gear at all, but thankfully I brought a few pieces and was able to build a gear belay in an awkward spot which created a ton of rope-drag on the belay. What kind of idiot removes the tree belay for another route and replaces it with ... stumps?

Cutting the trees on this ledge was borderline criminal! There was absolutely no reason whatsoever to chop them down. It would be like cutting the tree at the start of Angel's Crest, or the tree at the base of the Sail Flake. Sheer lunacy.

Furthermore, there was a completely unnecessary bolt at the start of the new Sunset Strip pitch which launches off the ledge with the chopped trees. The bolt is ludicrous, since a dead-bomber #2 cam protects the move.

I intend to climb the entire Sunset Strip soon, but I am expecting the worst ...

I vote we change the route name to Sunset sh*t.

Jesse James

[J Mace]

Arent you the guy that had the same experience on the Mouses tooth? All of my friends who have climbed SS have said it is an instant classic. Furthermore, everyone of Colins routes that I can actually climb have been awesome and well thought out.

[Mike Teschke]

I'll echo J Mace here, i've climbed Sunset Strip and it's 'an instant classic' and in my opinion it IS well thought out.
To address your two bolt concerns, the first bolt on the second pitch can be safely reached and clipped by climbing up the chimney, then you can down climb or do whatever you like to get out of the chimney after the bolt is clipped. The bolt at/near the 5.8 chimney pitch of Millenium Falcon really helps keep you on route and out of that chimney. I found it very nice, like a traffic sign, maybe it's not essential, but generally i don't complain about bolts that make routes safer and less confusing.
I'll let you actually climb the route to enjoy it yourself and form a more complete opinion.
(I don't know anything about the trees on the top of the 11a MF pitch.)

[Brendan]

Jesse James,

You should stick to softer routes such as Angels Crest and the Grand Wall. Sunset Strip is a fantastic climb put up by one of the best route developers Squamish has seen in a long time (there are other great developers too btw!). SS is very well protected - the second pitch you are referring to is not only .10a, but the crux is well protected with those bolts. Getting to the first bolt is stiff 4th class so quit your complaining and clip the anchor with a draw (to prevent your dreaded factor 2 fall) and run it out.
Have you climbed any of CM's routes before? If so then you'd know he only installs bolts if it's unsafe in some way for the leader or second. If you disagree with a bolt then don't clip it.
As for the dirt - it's a NEW ROUTE, what did you expect? If you have a problem with it go up there yourself and clean it up. CM owns/operates a f/t guiding company and doesn't have time to spend every day up there cleaning it to your specifications. It's had a unique feel righ now that will be gone forever after a few more ascents.

And for the record, if you find the lower pitches to be unsafe or scary, try your luck with the .9 finishing chimney. While you're enjoying clipping all the new shiny bolts in there, try to imagine yourself leading it the way he originally bolted it as part of The Gauntlet - with one bolt mid-way up - and then maybe you'll understand why these routes are made safe like this. Only after being re-birthed through that womb of a chimney will you appreciate a good safe route. An instant classic.

[TravisMcC]

With regards to Millenium Falcon at the end of pitch four (the 11a arete pitch), there is a two-bolt anchor (with chains I think?) on the face literally a couple metres higher where the trees once were (and stumps currently remain). I'd agree that it is run-out at the end, but it is 5.easy. Additionally, the moves between the cut trees and he bolt anchor are trivial.

My memory is fuzzy, but I am pretty sure that bolt anchor was there even before the trees were cut, but I could be wrong.

[jessejames]

If there's a bolt anchor there, then I'm blind as a bat. I've never seen one, and I've climbed the route 4 or 5 times. With the trees gone, I obviously looked pretty hard for an anchor. I didn't see sh*t, and neither did my second.

And I re-iterate that the bolt on pitch 6 or 7 is absolutely superfluous - there is a bomber hand crack within easy reach. I climbed that pitch (instead of the Mil Falcon 5.9 chimney) and there was simply no purpose to the bolt.

As for the pitch 2 bolting, if you think the chimney moves are '4th class', you might take a stab at Cobra Crack. You must be a superstar. I've climbed almost everything in Squamish up to 5.12- and I didn't see any fourth class moves there. It was a solid 5.10- move just to reach that bolt with a hospital fall. Have fun.

I'm sure the *climbing* itself on the route is marvelous, but just because someone is a respected climber and guide does NOT mean his route-setting is perfect.

CM should stick to guiding, and leave the chainsaw at home. Those trees should never have been cut - they posed no hazard, served as a perfect belay, enhanced the climbing and made for a comfortable, shady ledge.

Jesse James

[jessejames]

Jesse James,
You should stick to softer routes such as Angels Crest and the Grand Wall.

I climb the Grand Wall all the time. If the Grand at 11a is 'softer' than Sunset Strip (10d), then perhaps the grade for Sunset Strip needs to be adjusted? Or math is not part of the climber's skillset?

[jessejames]

" I found it very nice, like a traffic sign"

I thought that's what route topos were for?

[jstod]

Haven't climbed it yet but planning to this weekend. Consequently, can't offer an opinion on the route.

I do think that if you start a thread with a long-winded and hostile post calling-out a well respected member of the Squamish climbing community as "plain stupid and [who] would be better off bolting single pitch sport", then you're going to get a reaction against you.

Colin should be pretty easy to get hold of (through his guiding business) if you have beef with how he's bolted.

Jumping, un-solicited, on the loud speaker and winging like a baby about how someone else's efforts aren't up to your standards is just super lame.

Julian

[jessejames]

Haven't climbed it yet but planning to this weekend. Consequently, can't offer an opinion on the route.

Jumping, un-solicited, on the loud speaker and winging like a baby about how someone else's efforts aren't up to your standards is just super lame.

Julian

wrecking a belay station on an existing route and chopping trees that have been there since before CM was in diapers - now THAT'S super lame.

The crappy bolting is only SOMEWHAT lame.

[tsouth]

I'd echo jstod's concerns. Everyone I've talked to has said it is an awesome route and I plan to get on it in the near future. To call out CM, a guy who has put up numerous new classic lines is rather trivial. To say "yeah, the hype was overrated" is one thing but to say, but to say the route is sh*t is another. Some routes aren't going to be your favourite and that's life. Can't comment on the trees sounds like a bit of a bummer, but if there are rap anchors then that's better than nothing.

[jessejames]

I'd echo jstod's concerns. Everyone I've talked to has said it is an awesome route and I plan to get on it in the near future. To call out CM, a guy who has put up numerous new classic lines is rather trivial. To say "yeah, the hype was overrated" is one thing but to say, but to say the route is sh*t is another. Some routes aren't going to be your favourite and that's life. Can't comment on the trees sounds like a bit of a bummer, but if there are rap anchors then that's better than nothing.

I did not say the route was sh*t - I only climbed the first pitch. I said the BOLTING was rotten on pitch 2 and pitch 6 or 7 (which I encountered as it criss-crossed Mil Falcon). One bolt was dangerous, the other superfluous. And I said cutting the trees was pathetic, as they posed no problems for the route.

In fact, the climbing on Sunset Strip looks fantastic, and I'll finish it up next week. It's the cleaning and bolting that I find unacceptable.

Having climbed virtually every multipitch in Squamish under 5.12-, I have never - EVER - seen such a poor route-setting job, nor have I ever called anyone out on this kind of thing before. (On the Mouse's Tooth, I suggested bolted anchors but certainly did not b%$ch at BK for leaving them alpine, and of course I thought the route was tremendous).

Anyways, while all the Old Boys have rushed to Colin's defense, nobody has really refuted my criticisms of the route; the unnecessary butchering of trees, the removal of a tree belay from another route, the dangerous bolt on Pitch 2 and the superfluous bolt on pitch 6.

If this were a Frimer route or even a Barley route, such problems would not exist.

Jesse James

[Mike Teschke]

You suggested renaming the route to Sunset Sh*t.
I climbed it, and didn' find the bolts dangerous or superfluous... I even gave a suggestion on how to make clipping the so called dangerous bolt fairly trivial. Calling out a single bolt as superfluous on a 12 pitch route seems a little over the top, a route developer puts one bolt too many and all of a sudden the sky is falling... perhaps there's a perfectly good reason that that bolt was added, maybe not, did you ask Colin? There happens to be an advertisement link to his business right on this website... click it and phone and ask him.
Removing trees is part of route development in Squamish, fact of life, not everyone agrees on the extents of vegetation removal that is reasonable, or whether there are limits at all. Your opinion is clear in this regard, and you are entitled to voice your opinion. You are also free to develop routes yourself, and use more environmentally sensitive methods. Maybe you'll inspire other local route developers to adopt some of your positive ideas in this regard. There are countless debates on these forums about vegetation removal.
I can't refute the anchors on the top of pitch 4 of Millenium Falcon but anther poster claims that there are in fact bolt anchors in that area. This is a perfecetly fair conversation to bring up if in fact a traditional tree belay was removed and it impacts the actual climbing/belaying on the route. Sorry, i can't confirm anything there it's been a few years since i climbed Millenium Falcon... and I only have climbed it the one time.

[slhughes]

heh everyone, go easy on jessejames- fellah's probably been up all night fighting off women. look at those muscles, no wonder he's climbed all the 5.12's in squamish. all frimer's, anyway.



tosser.

[Brendan]

Jesse James (aka solojourneys),

When BK replied that your assessment of the Mouse's Tooth had nothing to do with reality and that you were most likely off route and on acid, it was a testament to your inaptitude to climb anything that hasn't been spoon fed to you. Which, is the same reason you bailed off Slesse the weekend before, and presumably why a .12- climber cant clip a bolt on a 5.9 pitch.

Your inability to comprehend what constitutes good climbing is why PaulC told you that you had no taste in rock and no sense for societal impact from your dumb ideas when you were holding climbing seminars on the sea wall in Stanley Park.

I have come to realize that whatever it is that you find acceptable is certainly not par for the course, and it is the very reason I hope you never write this alpine select book that you are bothering people about.

Colin has earned a reputation for good practises, you have earned nothing but a rep for some seriously bad BO.

Regrading the "butchering" of trees, there are anchors you can rap from, since it's the last pitch you can climb during falcon season. IF you were somewhat reasonable, you would have just asked Colin and posted here as a community service. Instead you just started out with this lame a$% diatribe about a route others are raving about.

If this were a Frimer route or even a Barley route, such problems would not exist.

That's right, you'd be dealing with Star Wars plaques and staples. Have at 'er.