Kingswood Condo Project above Mamquam Blind Channel

[coastal_climber]

Interesting.

Kinda off topic, does anyone know whats being built beside home depot and walmart?

[jipstyle]

One climber in the crowd asked why the Squamish facility be would called the National Climbing Centre when only an hour away, in Coquitlam, there is a 15,000-square-foot centre.

well cliffies in coquitlam is more than an hour away even in good traffic

but it does bring up a valid point ... shouldnt a "national climbing centre" be closer to a large urban population for self sustainability ... and i suspect for the population base of future athletes ... we are talking about indoor climbing

That's a nice and subtle plug for the biggest and most boring gym in the LM .. but why drive past the Edge?

[Anonymous climber]

The point being there is clearly nothing NATIONAL about it and this the way of the developer trying to buy out council and the public.
They now know that we, the climbers, are aware that the 3600 square foot gym is more akin to a bouldering wall or somewhere we can have birthday parties for kids. They insist it`s 'National' because they formed a 'Nation Climbing Center Society' to promote climbing but the funny part is the 3 members of the society are NOT CLIMBERS! And to make it even more a joke, the president of the Society is the spokesperson who is representing the Kingswood group. As if he gives a damn about climbing...he is got one job to do, and thats get this project approved. I bet you deep down he hates climbers.
They have also let us know that the gym will be run privately (not by Kingswood...they are not interested) and if anyone out there interested in doing so should contact them. So...asuming that the rent is high and the profit margins are low, there is a good chance that no one is interested and so it sits empty...then what? No guarantees that if they build it, it will be open.
Now back to the main issue...ACCESS. The fact is the 'right out' part of their concept, so north bound on 99, has NO SPEED UP LANE. For anyone who has turned right here, they know you have to gun it because the traffic coming down the hill has a speed limit of 70km/hr and often do the 10km/hr over allowance so 80km/hr. Now image 390 units worth of cars lined for that! And there is no room for a speed up lane because the bridge starts immedietly. Add the climbing wall and you have just reduced your site lines to boot.
And Scott Crescent to Clark...Nightmare for local residents!
Another clincher is redpoint residents coming from Squamish townsite to redpoint could turn into KFC going south bound then turn onto the 99 northbound (cross 2 lanes) and merge hard right (cross another 2 lanes) as a short cut to get into the development. Check it out...its doable...and very sketchy!! But if i lived there, I would probably do it.
I am disapointed to find out the rv park got shelved because of a 30 day max in 6 months set by council. At least climbers in rv`s do not add to traffic like 390 units, they park and walk to the climbs, and the site has way less impact in every regard...more trees, less buildings. I am all for the rv idea and council should extend the max to 90 days in 6 months.

[squamish climber]

The Developers are coming back...again with another proposal.
An article in the Squamish Chief paper says the developer will put $965,000 into community amenities, most of which will go to improve upon trails.

New Kingswood proposal headed to DOS
‘Scott Crescent’ plan focuses on trails and connectivity, proponent says.

An application to build up to 420 residential units adjacent to the upper Mamquam Blind Channel will soon land on the District of Squamish’s doormat.

After being smacked down by council five years ago, the same company — Kingswood Group — that put forward the Redpoint mixed-use development is back with a revamped project. Proponents aim to get a formal application to the municipality next month, Kingswood representative John Moonen told members of the Squamish Trails Society at a meeting on Thursday (March 21).

Included in their trail plan is a pedestrian bridge from Rose Park over to the east side of the channel. This would bring Smoke Bluffs Park a lot closer and accessible to the downtown. But how would the development impact access to the lower tier climbs? And what do climbers think about a large condo development below the park? Is this a development climbers should care about?

[tobyfk]

The Developers are coming back...again with another proposal.
And what do climbers think about a large condo development below the park? Is this a development climbers should care about?

It is not clear to me that climbers in general should care much about this either way - as it doesn't impact the Smoke Bluffs area very much. Climbers who actually live in Squamish might be against it for aesthetic or ideological reasons. My personal view is that it seems a lot of residential units in a small area ... plus there are access issues to the 99 that people have mentioned above. Hopefully if it or other nearby downtown developments go ahead there would be some attention to improving the 99 intersection(s).

[AaronRN]

Speaking as a local who lives near the bluffs, climbs in the bluffs, goes for walks with my family in the bluffs and cares about the future of my community, my hope is that the city council of Squamish isn't made of the same bunch of witless hacks who shut this development down during the first go around. And if they are, that they've learnt the lessons of placing the "Closed for Business" sign at our communities gate. Aesthetically speaking, anything would be better then the hillbilly inspired industrial waste yard that's there currently. IMO I hope they open that climbing gym that was first promised.
Aaron.

[original gorby]

Do you really think that 300 to 400 empty condos would be so much better than a vacant lot?
Do you know how many Squamish condos and townhouses are vacant already?
Who is going to buy all these condos... the same imaginary people who will arrive in droves to ski at Garibaldi at Squamish?

p.s. Kingswood has completely scrapped any plans for a "National Climbing Center" at this development. They've decided that what people really want is a public meeting space instead.

[AaronRN]

Do you really think that 300 to 400 empty condos would be so much better than a vacant lot?
Do you know how many Squamish condos and townhouses are vacant already?
Who is going to buy all these condos... the same imaginary people who will arrive in droves to ski at Garibaldi at Squamish?

The hundreds of millions of dollars that have already been spent on the expansion of highway 99 was not spent for imaginary people. The Infrastructure will fuel the demand. The future expansion of the lower mainland IS Squamish and the Sea to Sky. Those empty condos will be filled by the same people who are filling them now, (all be a little slower for some peoples taste) by the people and families who grew up on the North Shore and Vancouver, and who got priced out of the market 10 years ago.

Welcome to suburbia

[staven]

I attended one of the recent meetings with the developers and they have done a lot of design work to slow down traffic coming off of Hwy 99 into the condo site by adding a deceleration lane, and plan on a slight re-route of the Corridor Trail, where it will look quite similar to the London Drugs section. It seemed like a much better design and a compromise I could live with as far as the highway access goes. Access via Clarke Drive is another story (Valleycliffe entrance from Hwy99). They claim there will be 400(ish) units at full build out, estimating ~700 people living there. They have done studies of traffic patterns from similar developments around town showing that 70% of the traffic actually heads north, and 30% heads south. Applying some algorithms, they estimate there will be an additional 2 cars per minute using the lights at Clarke Drive at peak periods. In my opinion, that intersection is too small and congested to handle such an increase, especially with Crumpit Woods coming on line soon.

Also, and the worst part as far as I'm concerned, is that all traffic either heading south in the morning, or coming home from the north in the afternoon, will have to travel through the Valleycliffe lights, and down lower Clarke Drive (narrow road below the hospital). With cars parked on both sides, it would be even narrower and sketchier. They also plan on widening Scott Crescent (one way gravel road down from Hospital Hill) into a two lane road with a bike lane. Good idea, but several properties and driveways are in the way and I don't see a way to do it without encroaching right on top of them (which I assume they plan to do). The new roadway will also make access to Harbourview Place even steeper and sketchier than it already is.

In addition to the $900,000 community amenities package, which includes trail improvements, a bridge over Blind Channel, and a meeting room, they are pledging $75,000 to help improve the Clarke Drive intersection out of Valleycliffe. This isn't much, and would require the District to cough up the rest and actually do the work, which they would only have to do if they were to allow the traffic increase in the first place.

While I do think it would be nice to see something well-designed and attractive as you enter the Downtown area instead of a half used industrial site / gravel lot / brush field / display suite / closed down tourist info centre with broken windows, I feel bad for the people who live on lower Clark Drive and Scott Crescent, who will have to deal with 700 more people driving past their houses all day long. I suppose the current state of the property is marginally better than it was when the motel was there. I stayed there for a month while brushing in Indian Arm in 1998. Nasty place which we quickly renamed the Date-Rape Motel. Glad it got the wrecking ball.

There are other traffic concerns as well, but these are the major ones. They apparently had originally proposed a multi-million $ new road to move traffic up the hill from the site and onto Clarke Drive above the hospital, but I guess this is off the table now, not sure why. It would seem better to have kept that plan, but I'm not the one paying for it.

Ideally access would only be from the highway, but the MOT is not having it for whatever reasons (which I believe mainly have to do with getting people through Squamish without stopping and as quickly as possible - except for Walmart).

These guys are not going away. They bought the place, they will build their condos. I just hope we've made enough noise so that the DOS doesn't give them the re-zoning without the concerns being met. I know there are a few climbers in the area, not sure if they are regular lurkers on here or not. Maybe they could provide their $0.02 as well.

Wes.