If Squish is soft, what should get downgraded?

[MarkR]

I don't have a series of old guidebooks, but I've been told that one can track fairly linear grade-creep from one edition to the next. I think grades should be a dynamic quantity that should adjust as consensus builds, but it seems nobody wants to downgrade the soft, just upgrade the stiff.

So what would make Squish not soft? Downgrade everything one letter grade except the Split and Apron Strings? Or are there specific climbs that are helium-bagged making everything seem softer?

Forgetting sport-climbs for now (which are a different beast entirely) what are some routes that, after finishing them, had you begrugingly admitting that maybe that onsight was a little too easy?

A few:

Rambles - fun stuff but 5.6, not 5.8
Angel's Crack - 10b in my McLane guidebook but felt like soft 10a
Turnip - 5.7 at most?
The Zip - Not sure about this one, but climbed it after Talking Holds the other day. I know Talking Holds is a stiff 10a but the Zip felt kind of breezy. Just throwing this out there, but what do you think this would be graded in the Valley?

[johnL]

Based on climbs I`ve done:

Murrin
Jeff and the Giant Reach (11c --> 11a)

Bluffs:
Flying Circus (the same grade as Neat and Cool? Really? More like quarryman...5.
Kangaroo Corner (10c)
Jabberwocky (listed at 10a or b...I think i solid 5.8 but I`m a sport climber)

Papoose
Hairpin direct 4th pitch... if you are used to squamish `thin face` climbing I think it has one 10b move going past a bolt (Bourdon put it at 11a in the new book)

Maybe not in Squamish, but I think everything at sully's is 2-4 grades off

[jipstyle]

Sullys should be renamed Sillys .. 'cause that's what the grades are. I really enjoyed climbing there when I lived on the North Shore but the grading was WAY off.

As long as grades are consistent, I don't really care .. but I think I'm going to get spanked regularly when I move down to CA next month.

[jonny2vests]

My initial problem with replying to this thread is... wibble.

For me, all of YDS is broke, because it has no consistent definition. So comparing areas is tricky, because it seems to depend on how the guide book writer interpreted YDS. But lets pretend they all think it defines how 'hard' something is, rather than the hardest move, these are the ones I've done since I got here in Jan that I thought were gifts:

Jeff & the Giant Reach
Climb & Punishment
Desperado
The Zip
Rug Munchers
Geritol
Special K at Sullys - definitely the winner, probably a number grade out
Thriller off the Void
Heavy Charge
Clandestine Affair (Direct Start)
Split Beaver (lol, not)

[gnarnaphobe]

I think the grand daddy over hang is way inflated considering its quite a bit easier than perspective

[Dru]

The arch direct on Over The Rainbow is 5.8 yet guidebooks have it as hard as 10b.

[t-bone]

Pretty much all the 10c pitches in the Bullethead East linkup should be downgraded to 10b or 10a.