Soldiers Bolting at Smoke Bluffs

[slartibartfast]

I was climbing at the Smoke Bluffs this evening.

Went to Fatty Bolger. The noise from the carnival was really annoying.

Meanwhile, a fairly large group of Canadian Forces soldiers were there-- apparently practicing rescue techniques. It seems they have been in the area for a few days.

I was a bit surprised to see a couple of the soldiers anchored to a chain station about halfway up the cliff in the vicinity of the climb "Bumper". Kinda weird to make a two-pitch climb out of a 20m cliff.

A bit later I noticed at first one, then another, of the soldiers using a piton hammer to hammer a bolt in to the cliff.

It actually looked like they were modifying the climbs temporarily using bolts to suit their training needs!

Finally I called them on it.

"Are you hammering in bolts?", I asked.

"We only placed one today", was the reply.

That was kinda odd because there were definitely at least two bolts hammered.

I was fairly polite and explained it was bad etiquette to place bolts arbitrarily in the area.

"Hey, we're climbers too and we understand the etiquette", was the reply.

"Oh really?" I asked.

They replied, "We'll be back tomorrow with silicone to plug the hole, you'll never even know it was there."

WHATEVER!!!

I explained further that the community would not condone pockmarking the climb just for a day's training, but they started to get a little... defensive.

I backed off and apologized for being honest.

Bolt wars are one thing but just doing whatever you like on established climbs, on the sacred Squamish granodiorite?

I mean, I know they need to train, and I am glad we have our Forces, but really...?

NO FREAKING WAY THAT IS NECESSARY

I don't know what to suggest.

[Optimally-Primed]

I've notified the Squamish Access Society to see what they know about this, and whether they plan any course of action.

Good on you, slartibartfast, to (politely) call them on it. It's really easy to just walk on by.

[Charlie]

I am really surprised to hear about this as I was under the impression that the military had hired local ACMG instructors to train the soldiers. I would be rather unpleased to hear that local guides allowed the soldiers to place bolts on established climbs instead of taking them to a piece of "never to be used rock".

Definitely worth investigating and I will make sure it is discussed during the next SAS meeting.

[smallman]

The thing i don't understand is why they are training in Squamish when their base is in Chilliwack and there are hundreds of more accessible (in terms of travel and $$$) cliffs in the vicinity of Chilliwack and Hope. If they need to play with drills then drill up some local road side boulders.

[Dru]

The base in Chilliwack has been closed since the 1990s.

[CFS]

The Canadian forces have been training in the Squamish area for the past few weeks. They are here to train troops on how to rock climb and move in mountainous terrain.

The Troops and instructors have been climbing throughout the Bluffs in smaller groups to minimize monopolizing the routes. At the same time, they are trying to reduce their presence at specific crags for long periods of time. They are aware of local climbing concerns and local climbing ethics.

During the past few weeks with the direction of the Smoke Bluff committee they have helped re-bolt old anchors and chains that were in need of a retro fit as well as do trail maintenance. In no way do they want to cause any climbers to feel crowded at the climbs or do they want to inflict any damage on any cliffs in the area.

Yesterday while trying to find a training site that would not conflict with other high use areas some bolts were added to the Fatty Bolger area. No bolts were added to any of the existing routes and none of the routes were altered in any way. The bolts had been placed so that they could be driven in deep and the holes filled with granite epoxy. Obviously in hindsight this was a poor decision and after a meeting with all the instructors this will not happen again. The cliff is now how it was before and there is NO evidence of any added bolts.

The Canadian forces have had nothing to do with any other bolts that have been placed around the bluffs in recent weeks.

As stated before the troops don’t want to affect anyone trips to the crags, so if you come up to the crag and they are climbing on a route that you would like to climb on, just let them know and they will move on.

Canadian Forces Civilian Instructors

[Squamishmonkey]

I would like to express my support for the canadian forces coming to Squamish.
Since they have been here their conduct has been outstanding.
They have helped with trail building in the bluffs, they have helped in an emergency situation, helped fix old anchors and have kept their impact to a minimum.
They do not crowd crags and (minus the mistakenly placed bolts which have been fixed) understand climbers and locals ethics.

I would like to encourage the Canadian forces to keep coming to enjoy the world class climbing Squamish has to offer over other areas. As locals we should also acknowledge that as well as helping in the bluffs their presence is a boost to local business as well.

Thanks
Eric

[slartibartfast]

There is no question about it: the soldiers are welcome to climb and train in Squamish.

In so doing should they wish to feel a part of the community and the long-standing tradition of climbing in Squamish they are of course subject to the same basic constraints we all are.

As such, there is no doubt that bolting is a key concern. Although in modern times we are very much more accustomed to the practice of bolting, it is sure to attract attention or even arouse suspicion in a controlled area such as the Bluffs.

I believe, in reading the response of the Canadian Forces Civilian Instructors above, that the concern has been duly noted and properly addressed. For this I wish to thank the soldiers, the instructors, and all members of the community.

Working together, we can all continue to enjoy the privilege of climbing in Squamish.

...and hopefully all of us leave the rock in a climbable state for generations of climbers to come.

[alannon]

One thing to add, now that I've been directed to this thread by somebody I was with when we encountered this situation with that day.
I very politely asked the group what they were up to that day, but their only response was basically, "keep moving, don't bother us."
I have to say I'm rather concerned that the Canadian Forces would decide not to identify themselves or their training activities to a passer-by in a public park. I can think of several reasons why they would behave like this, all pure speculation, but none that I can think of reflect particularly well on their presence there. Perhaps they were just shy, I suppose?
CFS, I appreciate that you've responded to this inquiry, but I do wonder if you can either explain why the group was reluctant to identify themselves, or at least can understand why it might be concerning to some people that they would not. They had gone to the trouble of yellow-taping off the area that they were using, indicating to people that the area's use was restricted at the time, but if they had simply simply displayed a sign or a seal in the same place as the tape, nobody would even need to ask them.

[Tradrenn]

The Canadian forces have been training in the Squamish area for the past few weeks. They are here to train troops on how to rock climb and move in mountainous terrain.

The Troops and instructors have been climbing throughout the Bluffs in smaller groups to minimize monopolizing the routes. At the same time, they are trying to reduce their presence at specific crags for long periods of time. They are aware of local climbing concerns and local climbing ethics.

During the past few weeks with the direction of the Smoke Bluff committee they have helped re-bolt old anchors and chains that were in need of a retro fit as well as do trail maintenance. In no way do they want to cause any climbers to feel crowded at the climbs or do they want to inflict any damage on any cliffs in the area.

Yesterday while trying to find a training site that would not conflict with other high use areas some bolts were added to the Fatty Bolger area. No bolts were added to any of the existing routes and none of the routes were altered in any way. The bolts had been placed so that they could be driven in deep and the holes filled with granite epoxy. Obviously in hindsight this was a poor decision and after a meeting with all the instructors this will not happen again. The cliff is now how it was before and there is NO evidence of any added bolts.

The Canadian forces have had nothing to do with any other bolts that have been placed around the bluffs in recent weeks.

As stated before the troops don’t want to affect anyone trips to the crags, so if you come up to the crag and they are climbing on a route that you would like to climb on, just let them know and they will move on.

Canadian Forces Civilian Instructors

I understand that you boys need to train, just like us, but why aren't you doing that during a week ?

On Thursday there was about 12 people at the Bluffs.

and

Thank you. (if you know what I mean)

V.